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Old 02-19-2013, 09:30 AM #22
aresfiend
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
I seriously doubt you've used 4C eyes. For me it makes a big difference especially snap shooting. I can get 1-2 extra balls out before coming back in and that actually matters. When laning I also notice the streams are more consistent without the odd little stalls.
Played with 4C eyes on a 2k6 Alias and didn't notice any difference whatsoever.

Quote:
I'll give you a scenario that occurs VERY frequently to me and why it matters. When I go to make a move up the middle of the field and I get a shot on the snake players pack it usually a tiny window that I have to hit before they get down. The added smoothness of a gun allows me to get more shots at that tiny window without barrel rise. The quietness sometimes gets me more shots from a new position before I'm noticed. This is both in speedball and is more prevalent in woods/ rec. I hated my ego7 because it was the antithesis of the characteristics I value most in a gun.
Kick is the actual operation of the marker causing changes in aim, barrel rise is the vertical movement of the barrel from the pressure of the ball. You'll find that if there's no paint there will be no barrel rise.

I can somewhat agree with the quietness giving you a couple extra balls before they find you, but it's not going to be THAT much of an advantage over the Etek.

Quote:
To imply that learning run and gun with a cocker helped you develop form is kind of a stretch too because well tuned cockers are exceptionally smooth. I have owned probably 15 cockers ranging from ebladed sonic cockers, custom built evos/ custom bodies and STOs. Holding the tank tight to your shoulder is a given with any gun, but even so the gun itself can give you an edge if it's not vibrating around.
Bolded is the keyword here, I had no idea how the **** to tune a cocker at the time, coupled with the fact that just because it's smooth doesn't mean there's not kick.



Quote:
So lets lay this out objectively:

Protege:
Pros:
Smoother than etek
Quieter than etek
More efficient than etek
Arguably a better reg than the etek
Great stock board
*Potentially* faster than etek with 4C eyes in semi

Cons:
Pressure needs to be set correctly

Etek:
Pros:
Better stock grips
Moderately efficient (but less than protege)
Very good stock board
Pressures are hard to mess up

Cons:
Loud
Kicky (by almost any normal standard)

The only way you could give any type of edge to the etek is to say things like smoother, quieter, more efficient, just as reliable, better board, etc. don't matter.
I don't see why a better board doesn't matter, I don't see why saying it's more efficient wouldn't matter (Because it sure would), and seeing as they're both just as reliable that doesn't matter by default...

Having a good board means the marker will run for a long time and keep you more interested for longer if you're the type to like having more bells and whistles. I also know that there are a TON of people that play with small tanks for various reasons, myself included, that have and will get rid of a marker just because it doesn't shoot enough paint. Yes, they're both efficient, but if one marker shoots 6 and a half pods and the other marker shoots 7 then I'll take the one that can shoot 7 for when I decide to carry 5 pods on my pack, for example. If you play with a 68 that doesn't really matter as much, but either way, efficiency does matter to quite a few people.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:40 AM #23
lopez17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aresfiend View Post
Played with 4C eyes on a 2k6 Alias and didn't notice any difference whatsoever.
I personally don't care either way about the debate, as I think the OP really has no clue what he's looking for, but I'll chime in on this comment.

The only upgrade for Alias or Gen4 Intimidators to make this possible was the Kila Vibe board. IMO, it sucked. Badly. The one I used had code that I feel is substandard, never fully getting to the potential of what the eyes can do and I too never noticed a difference in performance.

With the 4C eyes for the Vice/G6R and a board that has the proper code to fully utilize their potential, the difference in semi is striking.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:53 AM #24
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Buy a completely stock marq rapper.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:56 AM #25
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Seriously. knock it off and help the poor guy. This isn't the place for petty arguments and finger pointing.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:09 AM #26
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Buy an axe not a mini or etek buy an axe with upgraded bolt.

Buy an axe for your price range
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:15 AM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aresfiend View Post
Kick is the actual operation of the marker causing changes in aim, barrel rise is the vertical movement of the barrel from the pressure of the ball. You'll find that if there's no paint there will be no barrel rise.

I can somewhat agree with the quietness giving you a couple extra balls before they find you, but it's not going to be THAT much of an advantage over the Etek.
I'm not sure the benefit of segregating kick and barrel rise, because to me they both negatively affect accuracy. Either way I find that smoothness does matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aresfiend View Post
Bolded is the keyword here, I had no idea how the **** to tune a cocker at the time, coupled with the fact that just because it's smooth doesn't mean there's not kick.
Again, I have no idea what you're trying to say, but it's generally accepted that smoothness is defined by lack of kick.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aresfiend View Post
I don't see why a better board doesn't matter, I don't see why saying it's more efficient wouldn't matter (Because it sure would), and seeing as they're both just as reliable that doesn't matter by default...

Having a good board means the marker will run for a long time and keep you more interested for longer if you're the type to like having more bells and whistles. I also know that there are a TON of people that play with small tanks for various reasons, myself included, that have and will get rid of a marker just because it doesn't shoot enough paint. Yes, they're both efficient, but if one marker shoots 6 and a half pods and the other marker shoots 7 then I'll take the one that can shoot 7 for when I decide to carry 5 pods on my pack, for example. If you play with a 68 that doesn't really matter as much, but either way, efficiency does matter to quite a few people.
If you give an edge to a board then it has to go to the protege and the protege is undeniably more efficient than the etek. So are you saying the protege is better now?


I am typically try to remove bias from my suggestions in an attempt to help the OP find what suits their needs/ wants best. In the case where the OP left an open slate within a budget, I don't think the etek is a good suggestion AT ALL. Not to mention that an ego 7 is right around his budget and offers far more than the etek.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:43 PM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
I'm not sure the benefit of segregating kick and barrel rise, because to me they both negatively affect accuracy. Either way I find that smoothness does matter.
It's simple, kick is caused by the actual cycling of the marker and barrel rise is caused by the resistance of the projectile. The only fair way to compare kick by barrel rise would be to see how much is caused without paint, a barrel, or hopper with the same tank.
Quote:
Again, I have no idea what you're trying to say, but it's generally accepted that smoothness is defined by lack of kick.
Oh, right, because you measure kick by barrel rise.

I also forgot that kick is all that's factored into barrel rise, meaning that it's why a Marq Victory will have more barrel rise than an Etek and not the fact that it's lighter than the Etek with the same amount of forward pressure
Quote:
If you give an edge to a board then it has to go to the protege and the protege is undeniably more efficient than the etek. So are you saying the protege is better now?
I don't see where you go saying that the Protege has the better board especially considering that I said a Star Framed Etek 2 with a Zick kit... I'd take an Ego 7 board over a basic Tadao any day.
Quote:
I am typically try to remove bias from my suggestions in an attempt to help the OP find what suits their needs/ wants best. In the case where the OP left an open slate within a budget, I don't think the etek is a good suggestion AT ALL. Not to mention that an ego 7 is right around his budget and offers far more than the etek.
I'm not sure what an Ego 7 offers over a Star Framed Etek 2 with a Zick kit (which I what I said, not a basic Etek). A Star Framed Etek2 basically has an Ego 7 board (only difference is it says "Star" when it boots up, is grey, and puts out a lower voltage to the noid than a regular 07), has Ego 8 regs, and as I mentioned Zick kit, the 07 literally only has the integrated front regulator mount, the Ego name, and a sleeveless rammer over a Star Framed Etek 2 with a Zick kit.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:32 PM #29
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buy an autococker.

all of these recommended guns do have really good points and alot of good
good reasons to buy.

but you need an autococker.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:49 PM #30
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Buy an axe!!!!
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:03 PM #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aresfiend View Post
It's simple, kick is caused by the actual cycling of the marker and barrel rise is caused by the resistance of the projectile.
Lol dude, I'm done with this discussion. This is utter and complete nonsense starting from the first line. Barrel rise is nothing more than a term that refers to reduced accuracy due to rotational force. Lots of things can cause rotational force in a marker, these aren't unported firearms.

Point after objective point has been made and all you can do is toss out another red herring. From an unbiased point of view the protege is a far superior marker to the etek2.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:27 PM #32
aresfiend
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueshifty View Post
From an unbiased point of view the protege is a far superior marker to the etek2.
From an unbiased view it's a tradeoff between looks/features and performance.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:07 AM #33
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I own a protege and it shoots amazing, otherwise an axe is you'r best bet. I will have to agree with the other guy because I am not a fan of the etek. As for a budget loader I bought a valken v max brand new for 45 bucks and I can't be happier with it.
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