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Old 01-28-2013, 10:05 PM #1
gutgut2hi68
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eigen bolt low velocity

guys, i just don't know. i took my tonton to my local shop today because I wanted to chrono it after I changed o-rings out to the ones in this video. In the vid, I don't show you the actual rings, but their all buna o-rings and they allow the bolt to slide effortlessly, as you will see.


With these o-rings and an input of 160PSI, and a dwell of 10MS, it shoots 250's with the occasional 270's, according to the guy who chronoed it for me at the shop. I had to turn it up to 180 to shoot 270's, and at 180 it had occasional 300's. Also, at 180, and 10MS, efficiency was horrible, like 600-700 PSI for a pod. I tried different regs just to be sure my other one was OK, and the different regs didn't help. I tried another vert maxflo, and a shocktech reg, still the same results. are my o-rings too loose or something? I also tried new batteries, and that didn't help either. Paint to bore match was great, no leaks anywhere, no drop off, it just shoots at a very low velocity, and at 180PSI it shoots 270's, but is horribly inefficient. I just do not know what the problem is. Problem is the same with all the rings ive tried.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:22 PM #2
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What noid do you have in there?
did you set your dwell the proper way? ..lower dwell and increase until it cycles and then add 2ms more?

Check to seenl if your spring is binding at any point
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:27 PM #3
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Parker noid, no spring binding, at 6MS, it gets a half cycle, at 7MS, it gets a full cycle, and of course anything beyond 7MS, it gets a good cycle and mine is set to 10MS.
Could it be my bolt guide? It's the stock one that has the TonTon logo on it. idk if there is a difference between a STOCK bolt guide (like the TonTon guide), and the bolt guide that looks identical to it that comes with the HE bolt kit. I'm truly stumped.

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Old 01-28-2013, 11:32 PM #4
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with my eigen bolt i have to be at 200psi to hit 270fps. im going to try changing all of my bolt orings.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:38 PM #5
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Doubtfull its the guide. Orings being to loose could certainly be a factor. When theyre to loose it may seal fine when the bolt is idle but it could be having internal leaks during the bolts motion that you cant even tell are there. You could very well be experiencing pneumatic lockout. Scroll down this page.

http://www.zdspb.com/tech/mguide/sho...neumatics.html
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:42 AM #6
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Originally Posted by jim4130 View Post
Doubtfull its the guide. Orings being to loose could certainly be a factor. When theyre to loose it may seal fine when the bolt is idle but it could be having internal leaks during the bolts motion that you cant even tell are there. You could very well be experiencing pneumatic lockout. Scroll down this page.

http://www.zdspb.com/tech/mguide/sho...neumatics.html
.

Try another guide just for ****s and giggles though.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:37 AM #7
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Try putting some dow55 on the Orings.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure its pronounced like engine with a pronounced E sound at front. You'd say it, if you spelled it phonetically: "Eye-jen"
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:19 AM #8
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Originally Posted by Paper_Cut View Post
Try putting some dow55 on the Orings.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure its pronounced like engine with a pronounced E sound at front. You'd say it, if you spelled it phonetically: "Eye-jen"


"EYE-GUN" - http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/eigen
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:40 PM #9
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What did you do? It was fine when I fixed it!
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:52 PM #10
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In my opinion, they're all WAY too loose; the bolt should not fall through so easily just by gravity. While going through the break-in stage, it is recommended to use slightly tighter fitted O-rings. Pay special close attention to the inner sleeve O-ring and the bolt sail, seconded by the guide O-rings. The bolt should be able to be held in place by the O-rings, only to move by either shaking or very light tapping.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:16 PM #11
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great input guys! Gisgo, I tried my other bolt guide, resulted in no change. Jim, I looked at the Pneumatic Lockout portion of ZDSPB and so I just went through and swapped out every o-ring in the bolt assembly, which resulted in a fit just like L8r H8r^ mentioned. The bolt doesn't just fall through like in my video anymore, but with a little coercion such as tapping or shaking like L8r H8r pointed out, it slides nicely. The new buna 12/70's don't fit even remotely close to the way the other 12/70's fit. The new ones are a little on the tight side, which is caused by the inner diameter of the bolt being off by a few thousandths of an inch as we all know. So I shot it a few minutes ago, and it shoots fine, no drop off and the rounds appear to be flying further out than they were prior to my o-ring rebuild. Unfortunately, I don't own a chronograph so I'm not entirely certain I've fixed my problem, but I have to go to class in Fresno tomorrow, and the proshop is around the corner from the university so I'll just go chrono it again. Thanks again for the help to all of you, I'll update this thread as soon as I check velocity again.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:58 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanP. View Post
What did you do? It was fine when I fixed it!
i was just tinkering with the bolt trying to find some better o-rings for it to get that crazy efficiency we all heard about and I was trying to work around the problem of the internal bore of the bolt being off. I was shocked when I found the o-rings that fit the way they did in that video, and I was like when I found them. I then found that velocity suffered quite a bit.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:30 PM #13
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Once the bolt is really well (and I mean really well!) broken in, you can try some o-rings which are looser fitting.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:19 PM #14
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yea guys, pneumatic lockout was the problem. I guess my o-rings were too loose. Chronoed it at the shop today, Input 160 / Dwell 10MS, 5 shots at 268, 270, 268, 270, 275. Thanks everyone!

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Old 01-30-2013, 11:23 PM #15
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Glad you fixed it!
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:39 PM #16
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Glad you fixed it!
thanks man
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:55 AM #17
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In my opinion, they're all WAY too loose; the bolt should not fall through so easily just by gravity. While going through the break-in stage, it is recommended to use slightly tighter fitted O-rings. Pay special close attention to the inner sleeve O-ring and the bolt sail, seconded by the guide O-rings. The bolt should be able to be held in place by the O-rings, only to move by either shaking or very light tapping.
So my tolerance vid is pretty spot on?
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:06 AM #18
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So my tolerance vid is pretty spot on?
I'd say so, but still try to do it reverse from what you did in ur vid. Do it so that the bolt's weight makes it slide down by gravity. But don't allow them to be as loose as mine were, or you will get lockout.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:10 PM #19
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Hey Gut, I live in Clovis......
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:08 PM #20
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Oh no way rhino really? Bro we gotta play then! Do u play at maximum paintball in Fresno at all?
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