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Old 01-29-2013, 09:58 AM #232
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This will fail and be changed next year or at worst, the year after. This seems like someone pulled "a bright idea" out of their *** or made a "what if" comment in passing and is now trying to shoe-horn it into existence. I can see this type of relegation working on the season level(like the NPPL did), but not the event level.
I was waiting to jump in with a forward looking post, so thank you for the opportunity. Maybe I'm reading in between the lines too much, but I really think this concept is at-best a success and the new format for years to come; or at-worst, an attempt at a quasi-scientific/sample size transition to forming a pro and semi-pro division either next year or a couple years out.

I also see this as PSP's way of trying to attract outside teams away from other leagues and giving them a season to proove if they are top 10 material. I think we can all agree that WC showed no pro team can just walk in and win a Race2 format without playing it consistently. The Champion/Challenger format gives those new to pro teams an opportunity to get there feet under them, i.e. no excuses if they are designated as semi-pro after the year.

It's an interesting concept none-the-less, but this smells more of laying groundwork than anything else to me.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:58 AM #233
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Heh, name-dropping with Legacy. Well done, sir. It was painful to watch both Legacy and Ultimate work the pro divisions. Don't think either team ever really recovered from that.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:15 AM #234
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There are plans to lock rosters so players can't team jump when their team fails to make the cut to play in the Champions League for a tournament. So that shouldn't be an issue.

And the PSP has allowed teams that aren't on par with the rest of the league to stick around in the past. They don't drop down easily. Remember Ultimate? CEP is in danger of a similar legacy (seewhatididthere?). Renaming D1 to "semi-pro" won't make them drop down faster. A lot of us are tired of watching the brutally unfair match ups event after event.

Plus, a 10 team true Pro division fixes other problems. Most the Pro teams who played World Cup went 3-1 but two of the most popular teams in paintball went home because of tie breakers. A 10 team division means we won't have an 8 way tie like that and teams get to play everyone in their division so advancement is more fair. Plus it allows new teams to break in without getting a soul crushing schedule.
What you did there, I see it.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:25 AM #235
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I like the idea...sucks that ill be in texas for the first event but unable to go :/
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:37 AM #236
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There are plans to lock rosters so players can't team jump when their team fails to make the cut to play in the Champions League for a tournament. So that shouldn't be an issue.

And the PSP has allowed teams that aren't on par with the rest of the league to stick around in the past. They don't drop down easily. Remember Ultimate? CEP is in danger of a similar legacy (seewhatididthere?). Renaming D1 to "semi-pro" won't make them drop down faster. A lot of us are tired of watching the brutally unfair match ups event after event.

Plus, a 10 team true Pro division fixes other problems. Most the Pro teams who played World Cup went 3-1 but two of the most popular teams in paintball went home because of tie breakers. A 10 team division means we won't have an 8 way tie like that and teams get to play everyone in their division so advancement is more fair. Plus it allows new teams to break in without getting a soul crushing schedule.
I couldnt agree with your post more John. It is my goal to make sure we are not remembered that way.

But also remember, the way the Pros have been seeded and prelims scheduled over the last 2 years dissallowes lower rank vs. lower rank, constantly pitting the 1 vs. 12 seed matchups. (unlike the rulebook and every other division does it.) I dont know if anyone who doesnt play pro even recognizes this. It simply stacks the odds against new teams from the start.

CEP supports this league movement and thinks Lane and company did a great job, because yes, we need to play teams of our own skill level (not D1) to work our way to compete against the best. The previous PRO system did not provide that.

GOOD JOB PSP! Excited for 2013.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:37 AM #237
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i see CEP and Aftershock swiching spots with the top 2 teams in the other division all year long.


Top 2 lower divsion teams move to champions only to place in the bottem two and get deregulated right back. Repeats all year

Will also to be intresting to see if companys will support a team that gets regulated out of pro
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:44 AM #238
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i see CEP and Aftershock swiching spots with the top 2 teams in the other division all year long.


Top 2 lower divsion teams move to champions only to place in the bottem two and get deregulated right back. Repeats all year

Will also to be intresting to see if companys will support a team that gets regulated out of pro
XSV, Ton Tons, Thunder, and 187 are all great teams. Not to mention the stacked Impact who was out of the top 10 last year.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:49 AM #239
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I love the idea because it works ridiculously well in all the soccer leagues I've seen, but I think it would work better if relegation happened at the end of every season and not between tournaments.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:52 AM #240
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Word is Pro will start on Thursday. Also why does everyone care about the prize I thought we all played for pride seeing as no prize will ever even chip what we put in to paintball.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:55 AM #241
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Originally Posted by DI*killa View Post
But also remember, the way the Pros have been seeded and prelims scheduled over the last 2 years dissallowes lower rank vs. lower rank, constantly pitting the 1 vs. 12 seed matchups. (unlike the rulebook and every other division does it.) I dont know if anyone who doesnt play pro even recognizes this. It simply stacks the odds against new teams from the start.
I said something about that as well. 10 teams I hope means 2 relatively balanced divisions and you play everyone in your division. This means the bottom ranked teams have a slight disadvantage, but nothing they shouldn't be able to overcome if they really deserve to not be ranked at the bottom.

With the old format, it was only fair that the best teams get to play the lowest ranked teams. After all, we want the best teams to make the finals and play each other for the event final, not eliminate each other in the prelims and dominate a lesser team for the final. However, it meant the lower ranked teams took beating after beating.


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i see CEP and Aftershock swiching spots with the top 2 teams in the other division all year long.

Top 2 lower divsion teams move to champions only to place in the bottem two and get deregulated right back. Repeats all year.
I don't think you are doing a good job counting to 10...

Here's a partial list of the teams who want to be in the elite 10 in the Champions division. They will most likely be joined by the top D1 teams and possibly even some other NPPL Pros and maybe even some Millennium teams. 2013 has the potential to have some real upsets with name brand teams getting regulated for an event. More importantly, it gives up and coming teams liek Top Gun the chance to prove they are good enough to hang with the Pros without making the commitment CEP and 187 had to.

Heat
Damage
XFactor
Ironmen
Infamous
Legion
Vicious
Dynasty
XSV
Shock
187
Impact
Thunder
CEP
Ton Tons
Top Gun


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Word is Pro will start on Thursday. Also why does everyone care about the prize I thought we all played for pride seeing as no prize will ever even chip what we put in to paintball.
That might just be for the first event since there will be ~15 teams in the Pro division for that one event. Then it will go down to 10 for the rest of the year.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:01 AM #242
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I just hope the other teams that will fill the challengers division are teams that have earned it or are regulated up. Not a throw together d3 team trying to prove themselves.
Lol. Well played sir.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:03 AM #243
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like the concept. not a fan of adding another division layer to things. maybe get rid of D4 then.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:14 AM #244
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Shock
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Top Gun

16 teams listed which means TopGun would have to play D1 the first event and then move to Challengers the 2nd event. Remember the first event 5 teams will get sent to the Challengers. Only 2 will get a chance to return each event.

If brackets are done off of ranking last year, and there are 5 teams in 3 brackets, they would look like this:

Heat-Xfactor-Dynasty-CEP-XSV
Damage-Legion-Vicious-Shock-Impact
Infamous-Ironmen-187-Thunder-Tontons

Now pick your 10 that stay.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:14 AM #245
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k
Quote:
Originally Posted by John View Post
I don't think you are doing a good job counting to 10...

Here's a partial list of the teams who want to be in the elite 10 in the Champions division. They will most likely be joined by the top D1 teams and possibly even some other NPPL Pros and maybe even some Millennium teams. 2013 has the potential to have some real upsets with name brand teams getting regulated for an event. More importantly, it gives up and coming teams liek Top Gun the chance to prove they are good enough to hang with the Pros without making the commitment CEP and 187 had to.

Heat
Damage
XFactor
Ironmen
Infamous
Legion
Vicious
Dynasty
XSV
Shock
187
Impact
Thunder
CEP
Ton Tons
Top Gun




That might just be for the first event since there will be ~15 teams in the Pro division for that one event. Then it will go down to 10 for the rest of the year.
right so for instance, and what im saying will probally happen

1st event...Chaps bottem two, shock and Cep
comps top two, Top gun and xsv

2nd events. Chaps bottem two, top gun and xsv
Comps top two, Shock and Cep
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:22 AM #246
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k

right so for instance, and what im saying will probally happen

1st event...Chaps bottem two, shock and Cep
comps top two, Top gun and xsv

2nd events. Chaps bottem two, top gun and xsv
Comps top two, Shock and Cep
5 out of the first 15 listed get demoted after the first event, not just 2. Then only two get demoted and two come back for the 3rd event.

And while I think your scenario might happen occasionally, I think you are counting out teams like Impact (who just picked up JRab and Dave Bains). Ton Tons who have shown they can win in Millennium (and the PSP D1). CEP who did used to win at the D1 level and now has Pro experience. 187 who won at the D1 level. Thunder who hasn't proven themselves yet but they have talent and players who have been there in the Pro finals before.

Plus, Infamous showed in 2011 that they can have a bad event (losing all 4 games in NJ). If that happens to them in 2013, then they won't be playing Cup in the Champions division.

And this way does the near impossible: it makes the 4th event crucial! If you choke at the 4th event, you lose the right to play against the top Pros at World Cup.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:26 AM #247
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:32 AM #248
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I really don't see what is so confusing about this. Or what's controversial. Unless of course everyone in here is of the idea that kids should get medals simply for participating and everyone's a winner, then the concept of the best of the best being allowed to play the best of the best should sound intriguing.

14 teams of world cup plus ton tons play a pro bracket in Dallas. D1 teams play D1. Bottom 5 (or 7) of the Pro teams in Dallas drop. (If it's 5, we wait for the 2nd event to start the promotion/relegation swap. If it's 7, the top 2 d1 teams then are promoted into the pro division)

Series points are ranked all the way down through all teams of challengers and champions for series points. Don't want to be relegated? Don't suck. Not fair that a number one team has to play challengers division at cup? Again, don't suck. Sorry competition, much like in real life, isn't always 'fair' for everyone.

This prevents random drop-ins from playing pro at any given point throughout the year, and even self-regulates the challengers division. If they allow anyone to enter the challengers division, so what? If that random team wins the division and promotes to Pro, obviously they did it by beating the best of the challengers division and earned it.

Can't watch both fields at once? Sorry. The company that is the PSP is doing its best to provide a form of elite competition that is not to be found in current paintball.

World cup has not meant any more, by the numbers, to a team looking to win a series. When there are no barriers placed on teams only playing cup and "being world champions", it dilutes the worth. Now, if you want to be a real "world champion"(of the pros, who obviously are the only ACTUAL world champions), you'll have to do well enough in at least one event to make it there.

Sounds legit
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:44 AM #249
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I really don't see what is so confusing about this. Or what's controversial. Unless of course everyone in here is of the idea that kids should get medals simply for participating and everyone's a winner, then the concept of the best of the best being allowed to play the best of the best should sound intriguing.

14 teams of world cup plus ton tons play a pro bracket in Dallas. D1 teams play D1. Bottom 5 (or 7) of the Pro teams in Dallas drop. (If it's 5, we wait for the 2nd event to start the promotion/relegation swap. If it's 7, the top 2 d1 teams then are promoted into the pro division)

Series points are ranked all the way down through all teams of challengers and champions for series points. Don't want to be relegated? Don't suck. Not fair that a number one team has to play challengers division at cup? Again, don't suck. Sorry competition, much like in real life, isn't always 'fair' for everyone.

This prevents random drop-ins from playing pro at any given point throughout the year, and even self-regulates the challengers division. If they allow anyone to enter the challengers division, so what? If that random team wins the division and promotes to Pro, obviously they did it by beating the best of the challengers division and earned it.

Can't watch both fields at once? Sorry. The company that is the PSP is doing its best to provide a form of elite competition that is not to be found in current paintball.

World cup has not meant any more, by the numbers, to a team looking to win a series. When there are no barriers placed on teams only playing cup and "being world champions", it dilutes the worth. Now, if you want to be a real "world champion"(of the pros, who obviously are the only ACTUAL world champions), you'll have to do well enough in at least one event to make it there.

Sounds legit
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:54 AM #250
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That might just be for the first event since there will be ~15 teams in the Pro division for that one event. Then it will go down to 10 for the rest of the year.
Sorry, Yes according to a few updates on Facebook from pros, Dallas Starts Thursday for them.
I still don't understand all the uproar. If they took away the X/A sure lets all start a riot but this is just about making things more fair and interesting.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:20 PM #251
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That might just be for the first event since there will be ~15 teams in the Pro division for that one event. Then it will go down to 10 for the rest of the year.
I thought they were all still pro teams? Champs and challengers, since they aren't making it a semi-pro division
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:58 PM #252
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correct, he meant pro-champs down to 10 and the rest to challenger. Just phrasing.
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