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Old 02-05-2013, 03:47 PM #43
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New guy question: Are all Evos P-blocks with wire detents?
Yes.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:55 PM #44
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:26 PM #45
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There is a one-off "Two Face" Evolution that doesn't have a P-Block. But that's the only exception that comes to mind...

One side of the gun is milled the other side is black:



Predators also don't have P-Blocks but they aren't Evolutions.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:51 AM #46
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:36 PM #47
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Beautiful gun, John!


Sorry for the terribad cell phone\lighting pic.



Still got my grip, Just wanted to run a Sidewinder! Original owner since 01. Still looking for some grips....
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:42 PM #48
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Wow, right back at ya. You don't see many all black ones.

I took off my chrome pneumatics and went with newer all black Evo ones. Just because.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:06 PM #49
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I saw that, and it looks great!

With my older guns I try to keep them as close to stock as possible. Even though those black ones are pretty nice looking....

I saw an all black one at Supergame last year but it was drilled
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:21 PM #50
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Did someone say all black evo?

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Old 02-07-2013, 04:28 PM #51
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Gotta show the sidewinder some love! If only you had the stock feedneck it would be like four thousand times cooler. But still glad to see another black one!
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:07 PM #52
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Not much functionality in keeping a stock feedneck from that age on an evo that's meant to be used. I assume it's a user because the sidewinder would be moot on a wallhanger.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:31 PM #53
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Not much functionality in keeping a stock feedneck from that age on an evo that's meant to be used. I assume it's a user because the sidewinder would be moot on a wallhanger.
Oh yes, I build all my autocockers to be daily shooters. I'm quite OCD like that.
All of the ones I've posted are leak free, timed, chrono'd, and ready to go. I'm highly irritated by even the tiniest hisses or even occasional sizzles. I will thoroughly spray the pneus with soapy water and check for bubbles when the trigger is at rest and when held back. I'm a freak like that.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:41 PM #54
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The feedneck on my black Evolution is fixed. But it fits my Revi perfectly so it works out.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:07 PM #55
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The feedneck on my black Evolution is fixed. But it fits my Revi perfectly so it works out.
This.

All you should need on that bad dad is a good ol' Revvy!
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:31 AM #56
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Flattened 3 way actuator rod and some good timing lowered trigger pull to 3mm. Fastest mech slider I have.




So I assume the trigger plate needs to be opened up a little to allow the flattened rod to fit?
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:16 AM #57
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I prefer the feel of the standard timing rod and slotted trigger plates myself. I feel they make the trigger pull smoother but less snappy. The little gap they provide also ensures I'm getting the best efficiency. There shouldn't be more than a 15fps difference between a standard shot with a cocker and a shot with the LPR turned all the way down (making it like a Sniper). That step is often looked over in the timing process because it isn't necessary. The slotted trigger plate makes hitting the 15fps mark much easier to achieve. It also makes them a tad more reliable according to Ravi.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:50 AM #58
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I disagree completely, but I'm not sure I absorbed your point too well, but here's my counter argument.

I feel that where the trigger plate and actuating rod come together is the most critical union of any two parts of the marker (overstatement, but not really). There should be as little leeway as possible, I'm talking just a few thousandths of an inch.

Slop between the plate and rod means inconsistent timing, as the rod and plate don't move in unison. This is especially true with the old eclipse hinges that have the elongated ring. The end result is useless trigger travel.

This is a bit of a moot point for you slider guys out there, because a lengthy pull is the business, but you hinge guys, go take a look at how much wasted trigger travel is due solely to the gaps between the rod and trigger plate. I understand you work around what you have, but if you are truly tuning the marker to a T, that gap is unacceptable.

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Old 02-08-2013, 11:54 AM #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldandsneaky View Post
Flattened 3 way actuator rod and some good timing lowered trigger pull to 3mm. Fastest mech slider I have.




So I assume the trigger plate needs to be opened up a little to allow the flattened rod to fit?
No, the stock trigger plate was already the slotted/oval style. This was the only marker I installed a flattened rod in. All of my slide framed cockers use a slotted/oval plates as well, but with standard round actuator rods. I don't like the newer trigger plates with the round hole.

I received the rod with another marker and wanted to experiment with one since I'd never tried it before. I expected to hate it since I don't like the newer trigger plates with the round holes, but it didn't feel like those, despite essentially doing the same thing.

The action still feels more similar to the slotted plates, at least to me. I ended up liking it and wanting to keep it for the simple sake of variety. It gets old sometimes having all markers restored to original parts only. I like owning markers that have individual character and feel when shooting, which is why I prefer mechs to electros.

I don't sell anyway, so I like to change parts around according to looks or function. "Purists" can scoff at my use of non original parts if they wish, but it's not like Im trying to sell it to them or anyone else anyway. The beauty of cockers is that we can do anything we want to them to make them truly our own.

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Old 02-08-2013, 12:29 PM #60
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I disagree completely, but I'm not sure I absorbed your point too well, but here's my counter argument.

I feel that where the trigger plate and actuating rod come together is the most critical union of any two parts of the marker (overstatement). There should be as little leeway as possible, I'm talking just a few thousandths of an inch.

Slop between the plate and rod means inconsistent timing, as the rod and plate don't move in unison. This is especially true with the old eclipse hinges that have the elongated ring. The end result is useless trigger travel.

This is a bit of a moot point for you slider guys out there, because a lengthy pull is the business, but you hinge guys, go take a look at how much wasted trigger travel is due solely to the gaps between the rod and trigger plate. I understand you work around what you have, but if you are truly tuning the marker to a T, that gap is unacceptable.
It's really a matter of which people prefer. Some people like yourself prefer a tight, snappy trigger and some like a longer, smoother trigger. You might consider a slotted trigger plate to be "unacceptable', but it's the best way to achieve a consistent gun and smooth trigger in my experience. However, that is all just opinion.

Tight triggers are nice and easily accomplished with a slot-less trigger plate, but the design also has it downfalls. Ravi explained it best in his review of the stock 2k autococker in the 'trigger' section...

http://mcarterbrown.com/ravi/Article...ocker2000.html

I learned the 15fps rule from talking to Craig Palmer. The gap in a slotted trigger plate gives the gun a tiny bit more time to release the air needed to get the ball up to speed. The Evolution I have in the thread shoots +/-3fps over a chrono with a slight underbore. My roundbody, inline Merlin also chronos that well. Both of them use sloted trigger plates. The Merlin's trigger pull is also about 3mm long.

It's funny that you would say a slotted trigger plate leads to an 'inconsistently timed' gun. In reality, a slot-less trigger plate can cause that same problem. At least it is more likely to throw off timing and cause the problem I (and Ravi) mentioned above.

Either setup can be properly timed, be consistent over the chrono, and so on. It's just preference. But next time you're at the field, see how much faster your slot-less cockers shoot when the LPR is turn off. And then see how far you have to set the hammer release away from the actuation point to get it down to 15fps. It will make the trigger a fair bit longer and show the downside to slotted trigger plate.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:46 PM #61
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Eh, different strokes I guess. I wouldn't trust a tech that told me to be accepting of loose tolerances. That extra time for the hammer to fall should be made up while timing the firing point.

I understand why that way of thinking became popular to those two. If you're assembling twenty markers a day, you're not going to take the time to make every last one perfect. You'll find a way to work around the shortcomings of the markers, and the parts you have available.

You'll have a hard time getting me to advocate loose tolerances, in any mechanical device. Then again, I also have to remember that it comes down to preference in the end. I'm glad your method works for you, but to others reading, I must insist that it is incorrect.
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:43 PM #62
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Eh, different strokes I guess. I wouldn't trust a tech that told me to be accepting of loose tolerances. That extra time for the hammer to fall should be made up while timing the firing point.
It's not considered "loose tolerances" if that was how it was designed to be made. AKA, Belsales, Eclipse, Palmers, and other reputable manufactures all use this design, and none of them are know for loose tolerances. In reality I see the best manufactures of autococker parts when I look at that list.

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I understand why that way of thinking became popular to those two. If you're assembling twenty markers a day, you're not going to take the time to make every last one perfect. You'll find a way to work around the shortcomings of the markers, and the parts you have available.
Ravi never assembled 20 markers a day. He just wrote reviews of autocockers in the 90's. He was known for being knowledgeable and unbiased.

Palmers is also known for their quality in all aspects. People buy their markers because they do spend extra time getting them right and have over 20 years of experience doing it. Honestly, how often do you hear people mentioning to measure the difference in FPS when timing an autococker? It assures that there is a proper gap between the hammer release and pneumatic activation, allowing for maximum consistency and efficiency. Not many people even know to do it, yet Palmers does that to every marker they make. That doesn't sounds like they skimp on timing their markers to me.

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You'll have a hard time getting me to advocate loose tolerances, in any mechanical device. Then again, I also have to remember that it comes down to preference in the end. I'm glad your method works for you, but to others reading, I must insist that it is incorrect.
Neither are wrong. Both have their benefits and their shortcomings.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:13 AM #63
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You know, I misunderstood the whole reason for flattening the timing rod in the first place. I thought the flattened timing rod was acting like a poor man's trigger stop against the frame opening. I didn't think about the play between the rod and the trigger. I think all my triggers (slide and hinge) have a round timing rod hole, and I just assumed they were ALL round. My mistake.
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