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Old 06-15-2014, 05:22 AM #1
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My conclusion on who\what god is

I was pushed into the secular Christian belief system at a young age but I have always been the person to ask why and how. Then I became interested in physics. Astro and Quantum to be exact. I say all that to say this. My research in physics and knowledge of religion tell me that God is energy.

I support this with the religious teaching first :
God is everywhere
God is never changing
God is the beginning and the end
All men were made in Gods image
God sees all

I support this with science:
Energy never changes it is a constant
Energy make up everything (the beginning)
Energy also comes from things that are dead or dying (the end)
We are made of particles of energy
With energy being everywhere and in everything if it were self-aware (or living) it would see all

I propose that energy is just that a living being God
I support this with scientific test called split test
this is a test that shot electrons at a split sheet when the electrons were being observed they acted as they were thought they should and were measured coming though only the slits but when they were left with no observation they went everywhere as to say they went wherever they wanted (only living things have free will)

What do you guys think, tell me your thoughts, feelings, and opinions.
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Old 06-17-2014, 07:01 AM #2
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Energy is the ability to do work.

The ability to do work never changes it is a constant
The ability to do work makes up everything (the beginning)
The ability to do work also comes from things that are dead or dying (the end)
We are made of particles that have the ability to do work.
With the ability to do workbeing everywhere and in everything if it were self-aware (or living) it would see all

I propose that the ability to fo work is just that a living being God

Still make sense?
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:33 AM #3
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@wavesport001 You are thinking of energy by a biological definition. Where energy is measured by the amount of work that can be done when said energy is introduced into an experiment. The physics energy is more of a constant abstract force. It is abstract because of its ability to change and not aways be recognized for what it is (unperceived). Here is a link you can look at http://physics.info/energy/

So by the definition given by physics energy is "a constant abstract force that is sometimes unperceived" now lets try that swap definition for name again.

Energy is a constant abstract force that is sometimes unperceived.

a constant abstract force that is sometimes unperceived never changes it is a constant
a constant abstract force that is sometimes unperceived makes up everything (the beginning)
a constant abstract force that is sometimes unperceived also comes from things that are dead or dying (the end)
We are made of particles that have a constant abstract force that is sometimes unperceived.
With a constant abstract force that is sometimes unperceived being everywhere and in everything if it were self-aware (or living) it would see all

I propose that a constant abstract force that is sometimes unperceived is just that a living being God

Yes, still makes sense.
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:44 AM #4
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"it really doesn't matter what you say on here. if there was truly evidence, it would come from a professor, not from a member on pbnation.com." - Anonymous poster
I agree with this statement that is why I have added links to back up my statements.

The link is a quantum physics experiment so fair warning.

Link from professors :
http://highexistence.com/docs/experiment.pdf

This is a more simple breakdown of the experiment and what the equations mean and how conclusion was come by. Also made by Professor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfPeprQ7oGc#t=290
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:08 AM #5
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Your statements on energy may be accurate(verifiable) but you have no proof of your claims about "god". You may think those attributes are what "god" is like but there will be plenty of people who would add more descriptors, less or different ones.
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:15 AM #6
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I will tell you that you're treading into turbulent waters. There's at least 2 physics grad students that frequent these parts and if I'm not mistaken each specialize in quantum theory.

Your explanation of the double-slit experiment is a bit vague. They don't "go wherever they want." They exhibit interference patterns on the backplane that suggests a wave function behavior instead of just a particulate striping.

I have failed miserably in explaining my position on the results in the past, but the implications/ interpretations vary widely and you may want to do a little more research or elaborate because I don't know of any that suggest that the media (particles) are living. I have, however, seen it suggested that humans can exist because a conscience deity is omnipresent/ omniscient.
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:32 AM #7
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I have failed miserably in explaining my position on the results in the past
You weren't bad at explaining it, I just disagree with that interpretation of the results. It doesn't provide any additional explanatory or predictive power to the mathematics, at the cost of creating an additional physical object which presumably comes into existence the moment the experiment is conducted and vanishes immediately after.
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Old 06-17-2014, 11:41 AM #8
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I am not religious at all but I accept others beliefs and do not argue or debate for or against my position. Agnostic probably explains me better than anything simply because I may not believe in a God or heaven and hell as most religions do but the logical person in me believes something had to exist to get the process started so to speak. Maybe that something is simply energy and not an all seeing/knowing being.

I like the OP theory that God isn't necessarily a who but a what. That "what" being energy when all of our lives we are taught that God is a being that most assume looks like a human I guess because that is the easiest for people to fathom.
I do follow you and am closer to believing your theory rather than God is someone who speaks to people or sent his son Jesus to Earth to die for our sins. To me that is as far fetched as it gets. Right up there with Scientology. But to each their own.

I may not follow you exactly and do not share your religious views you spoke of but it has given me something to think about.
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:05 PM #9
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You weren't bad at explaining it, I just disagree with that interpretation of the results. It doesn't provide any additional explanatory or predictive power to the mathematics, at the cost of creating an additional physical object which presumably comes into existence the moment the experiment is conducted and vanishes immediately after.
^^^ One of them that understands QM FAR better than I.

Fair enough. I would say that I learned a lot in that discussion and that I am (and have) more than willing to revisit my position.

I would like to ask a question to you specifically though... Was Schrodinger's cat originally meant as almost a parody? I can't remember where, but I thought somewhere in my reading that Schrodinger created the paradox as almost a mockery of the Copenhagen interpretation and that quantum states didn't necessarily apply to "actual" states. Is that a true statement? I suppose my dense opposition was never with the validity of the math, but perhaps the (layperson?) explanations of said models. "What the Bleep Do We Know - Down the Rabbit Hole" would be an example of what I consider new age laden, pseudoscience. After a bit more research, I believe most physicists agree. I probably let the rockstar scientists play too big a role in representing the scientific community.
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:12 PM #10
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OP, either god = energy in which case just call it energy or god = energy + some as yet undescribed properties that energy hasn't been shown to posess.
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:40 PM #11
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And OP I have that quote in my signature in jest. I think it's the most reprehensible thing that's been said to me on here.
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Old 06-17-2014, 04:35 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironyusa View Post
^^^ One of them that understands QM FAR better than I.
I usually ignore Wavesport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironyusa View Post
Fair enough. I would say that I learned a lot in that discussion and that I am (and have) more than willing to revisit my position.

I would like to ask a question to you specifically though... Was Schrodinger's cat originally meant as almost a parody? I can't remember where, but I thought somewhere in my reading that Schrodinger created the paradox as almost a mockery of the Copenhagen interpretation and that quantum states didn't necessarily apply to "actual" states. Is that a true statement? I suppose my dense opposition was never with the validity of the math, but perhaps the (layperson?) explanations of said models. "What the Bleep Do We Know - Down the Rabbit Hole" would be an example of what I consider new age laden, pseudoscience. After a bit more research, I believe most physicists agree. I probably let the rockstar scientists play too big a role in representing the scientific community.
Step 1.) Forget anything you heard in Down the Rabbit Hole.

Yeah, the wikipedia article is pretty much correct - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schrodi...and_motivation

It's important to draw a sharp distinction between quantum theory and interpretations of quantum theory. The Bohm interpretation is just a way of re-writing the math so the wavefunction becomes a physical "waveguide", but the results are identical to standard formulations. Well, it actually has notable deficiencies from the standpoint of conservation laws and symmetries, but that's a bit beyond our conversation.

And to anyone claiming God is energy, I believe you are misguided. Energy is the mathematical quantity which arises from a symmetry in time, which can be violated. If you want an inviolable symmetry (to the best of our knowledge), try this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPT_symmetry

But I would suggest that you're building your castle on a pillar of sand by constructing God with physics you don't understand.

Hey look, I can rhyme.
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:04 PM #13
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I am not religious at all but I accept others beliefs and do not argue or debate for or against my position. Agnostic probably explains me better than anything simply because I may not believe in a God... .
This comes back to what question is being asked. Technically you stating you may not believe in a god makes you an atheist. As for thinking that something had to set things in motion...thats different. Agnostic may sound better to some or be more appeasing but it skirts the main question.
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:24 PM #14
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God is so much more than just energy. As seen with history, so many people are trying to please their "gods" instead of them being mere energy. God is not bound by energy, but is a personable God
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:44 PM #15
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:50 PM #16
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You know this how?
He doesn't.
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Old 06-17-2014, 06:05 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage Mikey View Post
This comes back to what question is being asked. Technically you stating you may not believe in a god makes you an atheist. As for thinking that something had to set things in motion...thats different. Agnostic may sound better to some or be more appeasing but it skirts the main question.
You either conveniently cut off my quote at that point to try and make you sound smart by attempting to disprove me or you just stopped reading at the worst possible moment.

I clearly said I may not believe in a God as most religions do. Meaning my view of God is not like a Christain God or Hindu God or any other God that is spoken of specifically in religions. I believe the true existence or image of a deity is simply unknowable. That's where Agnostic comes in. God being a form of energy makes more sense to me and that is my response for the OP.
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Old 06-17-2014, 07:50 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironyusa View Post
I will tell you that you're treading into turbulent waters. There's at least 2 physics grad students that frequent these parts and if I'm not mistaken each specialize in quantum theory.

Your explanation of the double-slit experiment is a bit vague. They don't "go wherever they want." They exhibit interference patterns on the backplane that suggests a wave function behavior instead of just a particulate striping.

I have failed miserably in explaining my position on the results in the past, but the implications/ interpretations vary widely and you may want to do a little more research or elaborate because I don't know of any that suggest that the media (particles) are living. I have, however, seen it suggested that humans can exist because a conscience deity is omnipresent/ omniscient.
I love the wave of water an now there are three grad level physics students.

As for my previous statement "they go wherever they want" they do because when one was shot at a time it still produced the same effect thus being in super position meaning every possible position at the same time and then only choosing or becoming one position.
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Old 06-17-2014, 07:53 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BP0019 View Post
I am not religious at all but I accept others beliefs and do not argue or debate for or against my position. Agnostic probably explains me better than anything simply because I may not believe in a God or heaven and hell as most religions do but the logical person in me believes something had to exist to get the process started so to speak. Maybe that something is simply energy and not an all seeing/knowing being.

I like the OP theory that God isn't necessarily a who but a what. That "what" being energy when all of our lives we are taught that God is a being that most assume looks like a human I guess because that is the easiest for people to fathom.
I do follow you and am closer to believing your theory rather than God is someone who speaks to people or sent his son Jesus to Earth to die for our sins. To me that is as far fetched as it gets. Right up there with Scientology. But to each their own.

I may not follow you exactly and do not share your religious views you spoke of but it has given me something to think about.
I am glad, I am am not trying to unify science and religion here on PB nation LOL. I am only trying to give a new view, give something to think about. You said I have accomplished that so I am happy that I posted.
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Old 06-17-2014, 08:00 PM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage Mikey View Post
Your statements on energy may be accurate(verifiable) but you have no proof of your claims about "god". You may think those attributes are what "god" is like but there will be plenty of people who would add more descriptors, less or different ones.
This is true and the problem we face when trying to identify a "God". I am only looking at the JudeoChristian belief system. The primary religion of this country the US. I do relies I am online and there are many different types of religion but most share all the the bases I have listed in one form or another as traits of God or God's. That is why I stated them as a base line. It would be interested to see if my hypothesis would stand with other belief systems.
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Old 06-17-2014, 08:07 PM #21
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And OP I have that quote in my signature in jest. I think it's the most reprehensible thing that's been said to me on here.
I know it is in jest but is it only funny as anything else because it has a basis in truth that and it made me think i should show something to back up my statements.

I have not and will not take offense to any view stated on this thread and hope that none is taken from anything that I may post. I am only here to try to invoke original thought.
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