[Iamamartianchurch]

Originally Posted by barrel roll

I think 72nd trimester abortions should be on the table.

Haha.

[slateman]

Originally Posted by barrel roll

I think 72nd trimester abortions should be on the table.

Did all that work ... seems like a waste

[frankie says chillax]

Originally Posted by slateman

That's fine, that's why the law is the way it is in the first place. If you can't figure out within three months if you want to have a child, you shouldn't be considered a responsible adult.

I think what people are failing to understand with this is that the child is being born. The only thing still in the uterus is the baby's head and possibly shoulders. If the doctor slips, the baby will come out fully and the doctor cannot, legally, conduct an abortion.

I think 6 months is too long as well but i'd assume the parent came into financial troubles and cannot support, her life is threatened by the pregnancy, etc.

[sucka T.]

I have a medical question. When you guys say a fetus can live when 6 months old, is that out of the womb on its own? Or is that out of the womb, in extremely watched care with lots of medical life support? Or do some 6 month old fetuses die without close medical supervision? Or do all 6 month old fetuses live on their own? I mean if you say a baby can live 3 months premature, is that with life support or without life support?

(Not trying to pick sides on this, or start further debate. I just honestly do not know)

[F1VENOM]

A baby that premature needs a lot of medical intervention and even then may not make it.

[slateman]

Originally Posted by frankie says chillax

I think 6 months is too long as well but i'd assume the parent came into financial troubles and cannot support, her life is threatened by the pregnancy, etc.

Poor people have been raising children for thousands of years. Financial troubles should never be an acceptable reason to terminate a child. You don't lose your job and go, well, I guess I can't have this baby.

Life being threatened, sure. That's up to the mother, of course, but I'm definitely fine with that.

I'm actually fine with abortion in general. It's just ironic the distinctions we make. If you're going to terminate a pregnancy because the child may have Downs Syndrome, I don't see why you can't do it at 5 years old. The result is the same and the reasons are the same.

[barrel roll]

The youngest child to survive outside the womb gestated for a total of 22 weeks.

[sucka T.]

Did it live a healthy life?

[ElJefe13]

Moral issues aside, what rights does the fetus have? Is it already a US citizen, entitled to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? When does citizenship begin? If you not allowed to euthanize an old person with Alzheimer's because he is a US citizen, how are you allowed to euthanize a fetus that might have Down's?

[slateman]

Originally Posted by ElJefe13

Moral issues aside, what rights does the fetus have? Is it already a US citizen, entitled to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? When does citizenship begin? If you not allowed to euthanize an old person with Alzheimer's because he is a US citizen, how are you allowed to euthanize a fetus that might have Down's?

If it has no rights, how can you charge a murderer with two murders for killing a pregnant woman? How can you force a man to pay child support when it wasn't his choice to make in the first place?

[barrel roll]

Excuse me, it was 21 weeks and 6 days.

She had an issue with her eyes, ROP, and IVH. Both somewhat common to premature babies.

At 1 year she showed no long term premature birth related medical issues. She is a normal 6 year old girl.

[Treghc]

Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch

I think after birth euthanasia should be on the table. I know from some experience that pre-birth screening/testing that the results are an educated guess. My sister in law was supposed to have down syndrome but was born with no issues. I think, due to the imperfect nature of medical science, that we should euthanize after birth in cases such as the one you described and retardation (et al).

I think so as well.

And yes, pre-birth screening is an educated guess, but physical abnormalities are much easier to determine than the possibilities of things such as down's syndrome.

[mnp8nt]

Originally Posted by frankie says chillax

[IMG]http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/tea-party-ted-meme-pro-life.jpg[/IMG

Yes, because everyone that is 'pro-life' has the exact same positions. There aren't any 'pro-life' democrats at all.

Originally Posted by frankie says chillax

this issue isn't about the morality, it's about how it's done. people will get abortions either way. it's a healthier route when done by a professional plus it keeps population controlled

Oh you mean like gun control? We can legislate away mass murderers but we cant legislate abortion (a moral issue)? Riiight, duality much. I love the epic amount of love for eugenics in this thread. Really classy.

[slateman]

Originally Posted by mnp8nt

Yes, because everyone that is 'pro-life' has the exact same positions. There aren't any 'pro-life' democrats at all.

Oh you mean like gun control? We can legislate away mass murderers but we cant legislate abortion (a moral issue)? Riiight, duality much. I love the epic amount of love for eugenics in this thread. Really classy.

Simple evolution is all it is.

[spracks21]

Gun control legislation is passed in an effort to keep American citizens safe. Anti-abortion legislation actually endangers American lives, by forcing the procedure to be done in unsafe places, as well as forcing women to continue the birthing process even if it means their potential death.

I rather protect the life/livelihood of the mother than force a fetus into human existence (And likely a life of poverty and/or family-less upbringing) just because that's the natural course of things.

It's a civil issue, not one of moral responsibility. Anti-abortion laws deny the right of the mother to choose her own medical procedures for her own body. Don't try to tell her what the right thing to do is, it's not your situation that she is in.

[mnp8nt]

Originally Posted by spracks21

Gun control legislation is passed in an effort to keep American citizens safe. Anti-abortion legislation actually endangers American lives, by forcing the procedure to be done in unsafe places, as well as forcing women to continue the birthing process even if it means their potential death.
I rather protect the life/livelihood of the mother than force a fetus into human existence (And likely a life of poverty and/or family-less upbringing) just because that's the natural course of things.

It's a civil issue, not one of moral responsibility. Anti-abortion laws deny the right of the mother to choose her own medical procedures for her own body. Don't try to tell her what the right thing to do is, it's not your situation that she is in.

I love the moral ambiguity. Would you like to continue spewing an emotional hyperbole about women's 'rights'? As if through immaculate conception a fetus is created. It is delusional to think that the sperm is only considered the 'property' of a man if the fetus is wanted. There is no 'need' for abortion and claims about helping poverty are the result of the lack of support for the poor. Which the liberal agenda should already be solving riiight.

As an aside gun control has not been proven to 'keep Americans safe'. In fact, previous research has shown that the previous assault weapons ban and a ban on high capacity magazines was ineffective. According to you if criminals want a firearm under gun control they wont substitute a bomb for a gun. How can you argue that abortion is endemic and that violence (such as mass murders) is not? There is no need for either.

Originally Posted by slateman

Simple evolution is all it is.

'Perfection' is subjective.

[barrel roll]

Originally Posted by spracks21

Gun control legislation is passed in an effort to keep American citizens safe. Anti-abortion legislation actually endangers American lives, by forcing the procedure to be done in unsafe places, as well as forcing women to continue the birthing process even if it means their potential death.

I rather protect the life/livelihood of the mother than force a fetus into human existence (And likely a life of poverty and/or family-less upbringing) just because that's the natural course of things.

It's a civil issue, not one of moral responsibility. Anti-abortion laws deny the right of the mother to choose her own medical procedures for her own body. Don't try to tell her what the right thing to do is, it's not your situation that she is in.

Anti abortion legislation doesn't endanger lives. That is crap and you know it. The act itself endangers lives. Even with medical professionals it is a risk. It's the civil thing to do... my ***. If you are so concerned with society and not bringing children into it, you have a few options: don't screw. Or if you have no control over your own body, use birth control and prophylactic devices in combination.

Don't even think about bringing up the statistically minuscule rape/ incest abortions. That isn't what this is about.

[slateman]

Originally Posted by mnp8nt

'Perfection' is subjective.

No, it's not. Perfection in evolution is survival. You eliminate those who are least likely to survive. That would be the poor, the mentally retarded, and the physically disabled. Why bother bringing them into existence if all they're going to do is be a drag on society?

[F1VENOM]

Being poor isn't genetic...

[barrel roll]

Originally Posted by slateman

No, it's not. Perfection in evolution is survival. You eliminate those who are least likely to survive. That would be the poor, the mentally retarded, and the physically disabled. Why bother bringing them into existence if all they're going to do is be a drag on society?

You sound like the founder of planned parenthood. Except she wanted to kill off all blacks.

[spracks21]

The women is the one who's body undergoes pregnancy, you do know this right? So in matters relating to her pregnancy, she should be the decider. The fetus is still merely a partial extension of herself, sharing nutrients, hormones, body space, etc. Up until a certain point, once alpha brain patterns emerge for example, it is of no other person's concern what the mother chooses to do with her body.

And if you are going to make ridiculous "According to you.." statements and shout out irrelevant and substance-less Rhetoric, then I'll just ignore you.