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Old 02-21-2013, 11:21 PM #43
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Just curious, how do you explain The Clouds? Or Xenophane?
Can't.
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:24 PM #44
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Can't.
Gotcha. Just interested. The Clouds seems to compel me to believe Socrates was a mortal (excuse the pun).
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:27 AM #45
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You'd be hard-pressed to find a man (especially a married one) that uses a knife every day.
And this is based on what verifiable statistic?
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:20 AM #46
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And this is based on what verifiable statistic?
Joe Biden told me.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:31 AM #47
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I'm ashamed to say Biden came from my state... He came to my college last year to give a lecture... put me to sleep. When Chris Christi came on campus though, that guy was hilarious
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:00 AM #48
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Well he gives some great advice, we should all fire our guns into the air.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...-biden-in-jail
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:40 AM #49
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Gotcha. Just interested. The Clouds seems to compel me to believe Socrates was a mortal (excuse the pun).
I guess what makes it compelling is not so much that he is featured in play, but that Plato later references the play in apology. Real or not, it doesn't matter much.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:03 PM #50
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Ahh ignorance is bliss !
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:18 PM #51
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Eric is upset because no one takes him seriously.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:57 PM #52
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.004% savings when you implement weapons bans today!
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:10 PM #53
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Eric is upset because no one takes him seriously.
Not upset. Amused actually, because it verifies my original opinions about the make up of this forum. Fervent believers unwilling to even think of the possiblity they might be incorrect in their belief systems. Thus ignorance is bliss.
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:37 PM #54
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No, not really. You just have nothing of use to add to the discussion. Thanks, though.
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:52 PM #55
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You prove my point .Bother to read the op ed? If yes, what did you think?
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:54 PM #56
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Not upset. Amused actually, because it verifies my original opinions about the make up of this forum. Fervent believers unwilling to even think of the possiblity they might be incorrect in their belief systems. Thus ignorance is bliss.
This fits alot of the posters(shakey, blake, tbuck, ect.) but the posters who are most vocal on this subject know what they're talking about and can hold an argument. The problem is you just post studies and articles without stating your own side and expect people to read it all and come up with a counter to it. When they don't you resort to calling them ignorant.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:20 PM #57
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Sure I do but I don't shoot 22's. Anybody bother to read Ex PM Howard's Op Ed in the NY Times that I linked? Not talking about what he did but the end result. Shakey, I 'm a hunter I don't need to watch tv to know about guns, and I don't need to have a semi auto rifle to shoot a deer. You might get two shots off before they are running. The only true value of a semi auto rifle is to kill a lot of people quickly
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Ted Nugent was a draft dodger and is a complete a**h*le. Volcris ,well good for you,but I don't think the Ar15 is the right platform for deer. Tsblr , I'll agree with you on that for varmint hunting it would be handy. I doubt most have an Ar for that purpose.
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I love how everybody glossed over my link and my comment that MAYBE you'd learn something if you'd read it. Like actual facts about Gun Control. In Australia, implemented by a conservative Prime minister after an assault rifle rampage killed 35 people. Where Assault weapons were banned and an assault weapon and semi auto gun buy back was implemented. Back in 1996. No massacres since and a marked reduction in gun related homicides. But this is America some will bleat! We are different! I'd say nope and, I found the article interesting in that the end results surprised me.
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Ahh ignorance is bliss !
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Originally Posted by Eric the Fish View Post
Not upset. Amused actually, because it verifies my original opinions about the make up of this forum. Fervent believers unwilling to even think of the possiblity they might be incorrect in their belief systems. Thus ignorance is bliss.
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You prove my point .Bother to read the op ed? If yes, what did you think?


This is every single post you have made in this thread. Where is this mythical link to an Op Ed you keep talking about?
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:23 PM #58
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A post I made in the original Newtown shooting thread.

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Originally Posted by Eric the Fish View Post
Ahh ignorance is bliss !












http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

Oh, yeah. Virginia has seen firearms sales rise 73% while gun-related violent crime dropped 24%. http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/lo...9bb30f31a.html

Just ask the CDC and National Academy of Sciences how well gun control works...

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In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books and 43 government publications evaluating 80 gun-control measures. Researchers could not identify a single regulation that reduced violent crime, suicide or accidents. A year earlier, the Centers for Disease Control reported on ammunition bans, restrictions on acquisition, waiting periods, registration, licensing, child access prevention and zero tolerance laws. CDC's conclusion: There was no conclusive evidence that the laws reduced gun violence.
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-01-18/o...?_s=PM:OPINION

CDC study: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm

National Academy of Sciences study: http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309091241

That's right: not a single law or gun control measure that could be credibly linked to a reduction in violent crime, suicides or accidents.

Also, here's a link to the Department of Justice study that failed to demonstrate the effectiveness of the assault weapons ban: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/jerrylee/re..._final2004.pdf

And let's not forget ole Switzerland.

You know, the same country that requires all males, with the exception of those deemed incompetent, to own an assault rifle and also has the second lowest (pretty sure it's the second) crime rate.

Let's also visit Australia

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It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. *In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.

Even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America's rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault -- Australia's equivalent term for rape -- increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia's violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.
*for LTK

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=17847


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Although there is more per capita firepower in Switzerland than any place in the world, it is one of the safest places to be. To the delight of Americans who support the right to keep and bear arms, Switzerland is the proof in the pudding of the argument that guns don't cause crime.

According to the UN International Study on Firearm Regulation, in 1994 the homicide rate in England (including Wales) was 1.4 (9% involving firearms), and the robbery rate 116, per 100,000 population. In the United States, the homicide rate was almost 9.0 (70% involving firearms), and the robbery rate 234, per 100,000. England has strict gun control laws, ergo, the argument goes, the homicide rate is far lower than in the United States. However, such comparisons can be dangerous: in 1900, when England had no gun controls, the homicide rate was only 1.0 per 100,000.

Moreover, using data through 1996, the U.S. Department of Justice study Crime and Justice concluded that in England the robbery rate was 1.4 times higher, the assault rate was 2.3 higher, and the burglary rate was 1.7 times higher than in the United States. Only the murder and rape rates in the United States were higher than in England.

The UN Study omits Switzerland from its comparative analysis. The Swiss example contradicts the Study's hypothesis that a high incidence of firearm ownership correlates with high violent crime.

The Swiss Federal Police Office reports that, in 1997, there were 87 intentional homicides and 102 attempted homicides in the entire country. Some 91 of these 189 murders and attempts involved firearms (the statistics do not distinguish firearm use in consummated murders from attempts). With its population of seven million (which includes 1.2 million foreigners), Switzerland had a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100,000. There were 2,498 robberies (and attempted robberies), of which 546 involved firearms, giving a robbery rate of 36 per 100,000. Almost half of these criminal acts were committed by non-resident foreigners, which is why one hears reference in casual talk to "criminal tourists."

Sometimes, the data sounds too good to be true. In 1993, not a single armed robbery was reported in Geneva.
More: http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/artic...ime-swiss.html

Quote:
* Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18]

* A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 3.5% of households had members who had used a gun "for self-protection or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 1,029,615 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."[19]

* A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year.[20]

* A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:[21]

• 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"
• 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"
• 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"[22]
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp


Posted this in another thread.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:16 PM #59
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Why is it that people believe that if an ordinary American citizen owns or will own a firearm, suddenly that citizen is going to commit a crime with said weapon? Is there that much distrust of average, sane, legal, trustworthy humans in the US of A?

The funniest argument I've heard against teachers being allowed to carry is that they'll actually use that weapon to shoot kids themselves. Seriously? Has all sense left these people?
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:34 PM #60
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Why is it that people believe that if an ordinary American citizen owns or will own a firearm, suddenly that citizen is going to commit a crime with said weapon? Is there that much distrust of average, sane, legal, trustworthy humans in the US of A?
Probably in part because of the demeanor and behaviors of gun proponents like the ones on these boards. Would you trust blake, tuff, shakey, FE, and others carrying a fire arm everywhere they go? I personally would not, but that's admittedly only based off their posting, so hard to say I guess. But regardless, it doesn't help put one's mind at ease when they read these poster's sociopathic ramblings. How many times on here do right wingers make some kind of remark about killing liberals, Obama, or minority groups? The same **** gets said offline too, and the degree of hatred for these people (Especially Obama) is really unprecedented. We already had a democratic congresswomen become the victum of gun violence. There is a not so small bunch of people in this country who are genuinely afraid of a socialistic nightmare distopia being brought on them by Obama, and are not silent about being prepared to take life in order to prevent it. Scary..
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The funniest argument I've heard against teachers being allowed to carry is that they'll actually use that weapon to shoot kids themselves. Seriously? Has all sense left these people?
I never hear that as a primary concern, outside of the occasional overly challenged and stressed out teacher just snapping. But I agree that isn't the main concern. I'm more worried about students over powering or in another way getting the fire arm in their possession, and reeking havoc with it (Evening if it is never actually fired). Or the teacher over reacting to a situation and prematurely drawing their gun and traumatizing innocent students. Or, in a situation where an intruder or gunman enters the building, students being killed in the crossfire due to a "die hard" teacher initiating an old west style shootout in the halls or class rooms. Then there are always the incidents of neglect and accidental discharges that are bound to happen based on the laws of probability.

The old west landscape of everyone being armed just isn't appealing to me, and certainly doesn't make me feel any safer. But in all fairness, gun control isn't that big of an issue for me. I do enjoy shooting guns, and I recognize the need to protect one's home from intruders. But I also see nothing wrong with discussing reasonable limitations and doing everything possible to obstruct people who should not have guns from getting them.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:56 PM #61
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Well I really blew it on this one. Posted this on another thread. Sorry for the idiocy. By the way I think do gun ownership is protected by the second amendment, however I don't think it should apply to every weapon especially to weapons that can kill a multitude of people in a short while. Also guns that are inherently inaccurate when fired multiple times should need a special permit for purchase. (By the way that is how most of the innocent get killed in Chicago with some gang banger firing off a clip and shooting up everything except their intended target). Make it more difficult for straw purchasers to load up on semi autos . Here is the article I meant. Was surprised to see it. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/17/op...a-can-too.html
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:07 PM #62
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however I don't think it should apply to every weapon especially to weapons that can kill a multitude of people in a short while. Also guns that are inherently inaccurate when fired multiple times should need a special permit for purchase.
Like shotguns?
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:00 AM #63
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Well I really blew it on this one. Posted this on another thread. Sorry for the idiocy. By the way I think do gun ownership is protected by the second amendment, however I don't think it should apply to every weapon especially to weapons that can kill a multitude of people in a short while. Also guns that are inherently inaccurate when fired multiple times should need a special permit for purchase. (By the way that is how most of the innocent get killed in Chicago with some gang banger firing off a clip and shooting up everything except their intended target). Make it more difficult for straw purchasers to load up on semi autos . Here is the article I meant. Was surprised to see it. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/17/op...a-can-too.html
You really don't know anything about firearms, do you?
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