[Ph4n7oM 3]

Wow, what a read. I just found this.

This all started on Facebook. I saw a video that JT posted about a military luggage bag.

Within the first 40 seconds there was something said. There was something said that hurt my ears.

I called him out and this is where we are now.

http://youtu.be/ptWVzFkshEE

For what it's worth.


D~

[Bits64]

Leave it to the Internet to blow a simple comment out of proportion.

[Castro #66]

Leave it to the internet to host and inspire intelligent conversation about an already controversial subject.

[apes4us]

Originally Posted by onepumpchump13

That is exactly what you have been saying. I dont have the energy to quote it unless you try to deny it. You have directly said they are distasteful and should be banned..

I never said it should be banned. Distasteful, yes.

Originally Posted by Ph4n7oM 3

This all started on Facebook. I saw a video that JT posted about a military luggage bag.

Within the first 40 seconds there was something said. There was something said that hurt my ears.

I called him out and this is where we are now.

http://youtu.be/ptWVzFkshEE

So glad you posted this D! I am not a member of Facebook and had no idea this video existed.

In the video this is what is said about the jersey:
"They'll getcha 9 lives on the paintball field. I mean, it makes you superman out there, you take all kinds of bounces."

I don't see anything about saving the children in that statement.

Originally Posted by Castro #66

Leave it to the internet to host and inspire intelligent conversation about an already controversial subject.

Well said.

[Bits64]

You see intelligent conversation. I see people whining and complaining. Everyone just go play more paintball.

[onepumpchump13]

Originally Posted by apes4us

"They'll getcha 9 lives on the paintball field. I mean, it makes you superman out there, you take all kinds of bounces."

I don't see anything about saving the children in that statement.

First off thanks for watching, and thanks for the post D~ =)

That bag is truly a great bag and for half the price of most paintball bags. Back to the topic..


Ohh wait you thought you were pointing out something new? The fact that this jerzey does take bounces has been an understood fact since the beginning.

It was the quick and dirty, and shout out only, showing thanks for the jerzeys. Which did ya see em? SNAAAAAZY...

It wasn't the target product of the review. IF it was, the safety aspect would have been covered in detail. So would the fact of the bouncing and how it was mitigated by shooting quality paint... You can bet there will be one though make sure you tune in.


You are annoyingly selective to the what has been pointed out about this jerzey. So was D~, he even took his argument as far as insinuating that I do not care for my ladies safety.

Thinking that only pointing out one fact makes you inherently correct about the WHOLE topic is an interesting approach but not one I would suggest... It has not been denied at any point that pads take bounces, INCLUDING THIS JERZEY. It has however been pointed out by more than one person that the SAFETY aspect FAR outweighs your personal concerns towards getting that elim. Focusing on that ONE fact alone is not getting anywhere and is only a demonstration of ignorance and narrow-mindedness.


If you have some NEW FACTS to bring I welcome them. I will gladly tip my hat to you and call it a day if you can somehow prove to me. <THAT MEANS FACTS - NOT OPINIONS> that this piece of gear is not a safer way to play paintball. Your lack of ability when it comes to debating this topic has been at most frustrating.


The bottom line. Total Greif who do play straight up paintball and do it with style wear their RAZA Jerzeys with pride. They are the best JERZEY and PANT combo the team has owned to date. You can continue your chatter about shady talk or you can listen when they speak truthful words as to why they wear the jerzey.

[onepumpchump13]

Originally Posted by Bits64

You see intelligent conversation. I see people whining and complaining. Everyone just go play more paintball.

I see pretending at it.. If I played more you would have to play with me on weekdays sir.

[Castro #66]

Regardless of a person's opinion of the conversation topic or an individual's self expression, this is EXACTLY what forums are for. ...and of course you're welcome to your opinion.

[TeamBigShot (Banned)]

LOL apes.... clown....

[Castro #66]

I still haven't seen anyone point out Total Greif as being cheaters. You've been making that assumption all along.

In general, I'm referring to the players in my area who wear the newer Empire Jerseys. Often semi players, I find it disappointing to shoot them repeatedly without a break. These players likely have no intent to wear the jersey for safety.

[ncervantes]

I play for Total Greif and this is what I wear in open play and tournaments. What!

[Clippy]

Well I went from thinking page one was a good start to the usual skip to last page to see bull****. I very rarely wear a jersey unless its a tourney as normally its too damn hot to wear anything other than singlet and shorts. Check my avatar. Rental Tippman toter that got spooked. Was I looking for a bounce? Nope. Do I care about the outcome? Nope. I play paintball with the expectation I will get hit somewhere. That risk is part of the reason I play. Kids maybe need assistance, and any responsible field/adult should provide it until they are prepared to accept it.

That said, HOT jerseys from bulk manufacturers this year. Feel uber pro wearing a heap of their cool ****

[onepumpchump13]

Originally Posted by Castro #66

I still haven't seen anyone point out Total Greif as being cheaters.

Read above it was lost a couple pages back... You haven't said it but it has been implied that these Jerzeys are used by those that wear them as a crutch for open play.

Originally Posted by Clippy

Check my avatar

Did and thanks for the post....PLEASE NOTE THIS FELLAS OUTSTANDING EXAMPLE.

If you walk around to some random person explaining your fun paintball experience that weekend with all the fervor and passion that is normally found in the stories and then you top it off by lifting your sleeve and showing them those horrifying Welts..


This is a rhetorical question but it might serve a purpose for perspective....

<Do you really think that telling your story to those strangers just did your part to bring that random new person into the sport?> Or do you think you just sealed the deal for that person never looking at paintball again.

Wait lets say its a parent child duo that just walked into your establishment and there you are telling the same story you just told full of fervor and passion. You put the icing on the cake like you did last time lifting your sleeve to show those battle wounds you are just so proud of... They see that and they are like "THAT is from a paintball?!?!" They turn to their kid and say "Absolutely not." and promptly leave.

This doesn't just happen with children there are many grown folk that avoid this game because of this exact reason. They have seen the bloody welts that so frequently occur in this game and will have no part of it. Some because they have professional occupations and they simply can not chance it to have a bloody ring worm looking sore somewhere their prospective client would be forced to stare at.

This is going to be a stretch for some because of the Narrow-mindedness... But here it goes..

My step father REFUSED to play this game because he would see the welts I wore so proudly when I was younger. 14 or 15ish.. He took one look at em and instantly made up his mind. As any responsible caregiver, He almost made up my mind for me too. Since I was younger these welts that I wore so proudly almost cost me playing this sport.

Looking at the welts, he was just baffled why I thought this game was fun. He refused to condone any part of the game for the first couple years. After he realized that it wasn't just a passing fad and that I had real passion for the sport so he finally gave in and made it to a couple events.. He has been to many events since and watched me play, but to this day he refuses to play paintball. He just says, "He is smarter than that."

I do feel, as any responsible paintball player should, that his disdain for this sport is directly related to my representation of it.

Point being and so fantastically demonstrated by clippy... This piece of gear no matter its initial intention for bounces or anything else will help EVERYONE play paintball safer. It does eliminate the bloody welts on your arms, shoulder and chest. It is not limited to any type of player it is available to everyone rec baller and tourney baller. Its safety aspects outweigh anyone's wanton edges on the playing field...

[Castro #66]

Do we really want the people who are terrified of the welts?

[apes4us]

I've said it a couple of times already, paintball welts and paintball safety are two entirely different things IMO. Paintballs at 300fps are not unsafe, unless they hit an eyeball.

If welts are really all you are concerned about when you wear these jerseys (let's just pretend that's true, except for Gonzo which I actually believe him), then there are better sports for you where welts are not a problem. Airsoft and maybe someday 50 cal are perfect for people that are concerned about the welts that paintballs sometimes leave.

Paintball is a high intensity, extreme sport. If you really want to attract players and grow the sport, you shouldn't portray it as a bruise-less sport that anyone will love. Let's be honest, this sport is NOT for everybody!

Edit: Castro beat me to the punchline

[onepumpchump13]

Originally Posted by Castro #66

Do we really want the people who are terrified of the welts?

Yes Chris, we do want as many people joining and remaining in this sport as long as possible.

And Terrified is your implication and word not mine. Responsible caregiver , Business professional, And child were the examples given.

We do not want to limit their choices when it comes to safety, and in doing so, cut the would be paintball player out of this sport.

[apes4us]

Originally Posted by onepumpchump13

Yes Chris, we do want as many people joining and remaining in this sport as long as possible.

We do not want to limit their choices when it comes to safety, and in doing so, cut the would be paintball player out of this sport.

So we are going to lie to them and portray paintball as a painless sport? They play 1 game and quit when they get popped in the neck the first time. The type of people you are describing will never play paintball, and why would you want them to anyways?

I don't know why I'm entertaining this new argument anyways, as you clearly stated in that video what the true reason for wearing this stuff is. You only posted this stuff about the children to appease the people that were dogging on you for the things said in the video. I'm not falling for it.

Kids are not going to flock to paintball all of the sudden because everyone is wearing bounce gear. If anything, it will cause more paint to be in the air which is what got the sport in the current downslide in the first place.

[onepumpchump13]

Originally Posted by apes4us

I've said it a couple of times already, paintball welts and paintball safety are two entirely different things IMO.

Then this speaks to your experience or lack of when dealing with the general public on this issue. They are not separate issues this is a concern to new players and even old players in the game.

[drgonzo]

Originally Posted by apes4us

I'm not suggesting setting any new rules or standards for the current situation. Your conscience should dictate what is a fair level of padding given your opponents and surroundings.

Well if it's truly on someone else's conscience, then why go after someone about it? Isn't that you imposing your conscience?

Originally Posted by apes4us

Touche, but the latest forearm pads (what actual purpose do these serve anyways?) and jerseys are too far IMO. At some point we are going to have to draw a line in the sand, or we will have to use squirt guns to get paint on people.

Forearm pads are for crawling or otherwise playing with your forearms/elbows on the ground (e.g. shooting while prone), especially on rocky/gravelly ground. Even jerseys with some padding in the forearms won't stop abrasions/cuts on forearms and elbows. What has changed recently about forearm pads? I have a set of eclipse pads from several years ago and as far as I know current ones aren't much different.

I actually would be for some regulation on the construction of pads, right now I believe the standard is "closed cell foam" but even with that stipulation, there can be different levels of "softness." The industry should perhaps figure out a durometer/density that approximates human flesh.

[Castro #66]

Several years ago I left my pads in my bag and ended up with a deep cut on my elbow just from laying on the ground... no sliding of any kind during that game. There was so much blood on my jersey I had to replace it. I've worn arm pads in 99% of games since.

In recent years I started playing indoors every week, and on a wood floor. Following an accidental slip caused by poor maintenance, I bought knee pads. The liquid that built up over my knee cap was equal to the size and shape of an egg. I haven't gone a day of play without them since.

[apes4us]

Originally Posted by drgonzo

Well if it's truly on someone else's conscience, then why go after someone about it? Isn't that you imposing your conscience?

Sure, because I believe I'm right and I enjoy a spirited debate

Originally Posted by drgonzo

Forearm pads are for crawling or otherwise playing with your forearms/elbows on the ground (e.g. shooting while prone), especially on rocky/gravelly ground. Even jerseys with some padding in the forearms won't stop abrasions/cuts on forearms and elbows. What has changed recently about forearm pads? I have a set of eclipse pads from several years ago and as far as I know current ones aren't much different.

I actually would be for some regulation on the construction of pads, right now I believe the standard is "closed cell foam" but even with that stipulation, there can be different levels of "softness." The industry should perhaps figure out a durometer/density that approximates human flesh.

I dunno, I never needed anything more than elbow pads, but then again I don't bother crawling all that often these days anyways! I can't recall ever getting my forearms cut up.
Your proposal sounds reasonable.