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Old 01-29-2013, 12:23 AM #43
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I like to wear padded jerseys in the arena because bounces are more fun than breaks.

I like to wear mesh when I play rec because staying cool is more fun than being a sweaty mess.

I like Total Greif because they are a group of solid guys (Sal's the man! Wuttup from the Blowfish Sal!!!) that aren't well known for calling people fools and announcing a loss of respect for other solid guys simply because of a difference of opinion shared among colleagues on the internet.

Greif plays hard, they know the game (they helped build the darn thing) and they take advantage of what they can, just like we all do. And this game can come down to seconds, inches and yup, a single bounce. We spend countless dollars looking for that edge and a few greenbacks put towards an awesome Raza jersey is most certainly money well spent.

No need to place this under the heavily padded veil of safety to validate wearing what one chooses to wear. If shoulder pads that would put grandma to shame kept kids hearts from stopping or concussions from happening, then this stuff should be required. The Blowfish are a Hundredth Monkey team which is a testament to our support of "bounce" caps. And I've got a little one that I can guarantee will be bundled up out there until he is ready to shed the extra skin. Nobody in their right mind is going to tell a kid with a rental that he/she needs to "man up". But if a tournament director or a field owner feels that the quality of the game (and thus, the satisfaction of their customers) is taking a hit simply to minimize the size of boo-boos that seasoned vets go home with, I can see that side of things too. Bounces confuse the game. Unnecessary paint checks amid a sea of padding and loose fabric waste a ref's time. And in the wonderful world of walk-on, the less confusing the game and the more paid eyes you can keep on the field, the safer and better the day will be for your milkiest cash cow...the rental player. But, when points mean $, most certainly you'll see me working the poofy jersey angle too until they tell me that I can't...just like any competitive player should. What I won't do is say that I'm wearing what I wear out of concern for the safety of the children. I am not running for office and thus, don't need the votes.

I like paintball because it is fun. I don't like the internet because most of the time, it isn't.

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Old 01-29-2013, 01:52 AM #44
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Originally Posted by sapdawg11 View Post
I like Total Greif because they are a group of solid guys (Sal's the man! Wuttup from the Blowfish Sal!!!) that aren't well known for calling people fools and announcing a loss of respect for other solid guys simply because of a difference of opinion shared among colleagues on the internet.


No need to place this under the heavily padded veil of safety to validate wearing what one chooses to wear.

You are right they most definitely aren't known for that. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen just means it takes a lot for it to come about.

I no longer play for Total Greif. It is because of my strong feelings towards THIS subject and me wanting to speak my mind freely I had to leave the team. I am a huge fan of the purple fellas and still take pride in what they do and stand for.. I believe in their values to my core. All besides the one where they stand to the side and let people give bad advice. I never have been one to do that.

I have had the pleasure of playing with/against these guys/gals off and on for over 10 years now. I will not see their reputation so easily slandered simply because my opinion is different than someone else. If you have facts bring them but don't bring your slights and insinuations. This is my viewpoint and it is littered with facts.

Where the "fool " comment came in is the FOOLISH insinuation that a bounce cap makes you a target for overshooting. It was a pointless ridiculous and negative comment that had no validity whatsoever. Being on a paintball field makes you a target your safety gear is what helps when the overshooting happens.. It is a hazard of the game. It is not a new hazard.

The constant tone of wearing this jerzey leads to or advocates shady play is absolutely ludicrous.

There IS a NEED to stress the safety aspect of this Jerzey. Same as there WAS a NEED to stress the safety aspect of bounce caps. It has nothing to do with validating wearing it. AS IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO WEAR IT - IT NEEDS NO VALIDATION!

I don't want a new player feeling like they shouldn't or cant wear this jerzey just because someone wants an edge out there. Or lets say they read this lil debate... and then decide against it. all because lil bobby sue mcsnivvle pants was worried about some bounces.

.. ROCK IT IF YOU WANT IT. And if one of these fellas shoots you and it bounces grin and own em.. Aim for a fleshy part and give em that scar they are so hungry for. < The sad thing is that last offensive and ridiculous sentence applies.

If wearing a padded Jerzey is what would make the difference between someone playing this sport or not (NEW PLAYER OR OLD). Rock it, and welcome to it.. I do believe in being and ambassador to the sport. So much so I will not worry if you are my friend after I speak truth to you. If you are offended by my ability to demonstrate just how off base you are. Feel free to make it stop.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:07 AM #45
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Shooting for the mask is all fine and dandy when a player is looking at me, that's day one stuff. It's entirely different when I get the drop on someone and bounce them multiple times before they get a look at me because I can't see a hard enough target... and a whole different animal when that skinny kid runs up the center of the field with his gauntlet sleeve in front of his body and face like a riot shield.

Gear has been specifically designed for this purpose for years... why are we pretending it isn't today?
I have yet to see a padded shirt or jersey that can bounce a square shot to the back. The spine and ribs are pretty close to the surface back there and the clothing is usually fairly close to the body.

Then we get to the point of how a player reacts to being shot in the back, most less experienced players and conscientious tournament players will call themselves out. If they turn on you, then break or bounce doesn't matter.

And you always have the back of the head if you really want to make sure to tap someone and keep them from turning.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:31 AM #46
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I just can't agree with aiming for the head, if you have their whole back. Sure, if all they stick out of the bunker if the head, shoot it. To purposely aim for the head when you have other options is unsafe. (IMO) But it's a game to me, so I didn't eliminate the player, better luck next game.

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Old 01-29-2013, 07:55 AM #47
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Exactly, even if I'm shooting a single ball, I can't condone shooting for anywhere behind the cheek. I've been victim of some nastiness to the back of the head (might explain some things, no?) and wouldn't wish that on the worst cheater.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:03 AM #48
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Originally Posted by onepumpchump13 View Post
Where the "fool " comment came in is the FOOLISH insinuation
I'm sorry to see that this thread has devolved into petty name calling.

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I don't want a new player feeling like they shouldn't or cant wear this jerzey just because someone wants an edge out there. Or lets say they read this lil debate... and then decide against it. all because lil bobby sue mcsnivvle pants was worried about some bounces.
You have a tendency to keep bringing up "the kids", but what does that have to do with you wearing a bounce jersey?
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:08 AM #49
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But it's a game to me, so I didn't eliminate the player, better luck next game.

Jay
Not true. Call of duty is a game. Paintball is a sport -_-

Jay has spoken. Thread is over
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:47 AM #50
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Originally Posted by apes4us View Post
You have a tendency to keep bringing up "the kids", but what does that have to do with you wearing a bounce jersey?
I bring up Kids, old people, ME, and mommies in paintball, new players ,old players, regulars. I have done it in hopes that you will see that your bad attitude and narrow minded vision effects every paintball player. Myself Included...

It doesn't help this sport in any way. It shuns people away. People should feel welcome in this sport.. And who are you or again, to tell anyone else what to wear? Especially if its not breaking any rules and it a safer way to play this sport.

If I you choose to participate in some competition then you are CHOOSING to be bound by its rules. Your negative comments after the fact about your competitors or the rules which you chose to adhere to speaks to your level of integrity not theirs. They have chosen to be bound by the same rules you have. If I didn't care I wouldn't waste my time trying to explain this viewpoint.

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I'm sorry to see that this thread has devolved into petty name calling.
Cant agree more, I just hate when people try to defy simple logic or rationalize stupidity..

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Exactly, even if I'm shooting a single ball, I can't condone shooting for anywhere behind the cheek. I've been victim of some nastiness to the back of the head (might explain some things, no?) and wouldn't wish that on the worst cheater.
I think the worst shot I have taken missed my dome went into my mask and felt like it was going to rip my ear off...

Its between that and a shot I took while reffing on the base of my skull that boney part right above your neck like 2 inches away...
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:59 AM #51
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And who are you or again, to tell anyone else what to wear?
When you post up about something as controversial as bounce gear is, you should expect that not everyone is going to agree with you.

I feel strongly that wearing these new age extra poofy "professional" paintball jerseys that are geared towards bounces (and advertised as such) in rec ball environments is distasteful. Not only is it distasteful, I think it turns away renters and hurts the sport in the long run.

How much padding is too much padding?
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:07 PM #52
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When you post up about something as controversial as bounce gear is, you should expect that not everyone is going to agree with you.

I feel strongly that wearing these new age extra poofy "professional" paintball jerseys that are geared towards bounces (and advertised as such) in rec ball environments is distasteful. Not only is it distasteful, I think it turns away renters and hurts the sport in the long run.

How much padding is too much padding?
This is a great post! LEGIT opinion (right or wrong) with no directed slights making personal attacks

Dig it


According to the two major regional tournament series out there (PSP & NPPL). This Jerzey has been deemed perfectly acceptable. <FACT>


The story that started this thread is a real one. I can tell you in my years of reffing that parents don't care about this sport. They care about their child playing it, the fun they are having, and if they are safe doing so. Countless chest protectors start the day in a new group and about half are still on at the end of the day. <TESTED TRUTH>

Same story with full grown paintball newbs.. They start the day with all their layers and by the end of it half shed them the other half keep it on. <TESTED TRUTH>

I have given countless examples of how the bouncing advertised for it or not is not an issue with good paint. It is <TESTED TRUTH> not an opinion.

I have scars on my arms from playing in paper thin jerzeys. They had the FPS tested right after the it happened to see if they were shooting hot... They were under the 300 fps limit. <TESTED TRUTH.>

I have seen adults and kids alike quit out because they weren't down for getting shot. If all it takes is me tossing my jerzey to the guy or gal (no matter the age) and say, here give this a go, and it gets em on the field. <TESTED TRUTH>

I will promote TESTED TRUTHS, and Facts as long as I am any part of paintball because I want to see more people join this sport. This jerzey is a good CHOICE, it may not be for everyone but it is a good thing it is now in the sport.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:25 PM #53
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Originally Posted by onepumpchump13 View Post
This is a great post! LEGIT opinion (right or wrong) with no directed slights making personal attacks
Thanks for your approval, but it needs to be pointed out that you are the only one who has resorted to personal attacks in this thread.

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I will promote TESTED TRUTHS, and Facts as long as I am any part of paintball because I want to see more people join this sport.
What you have provided is a list of personal experiences, not truths or facts. You should be open to the fact that there may be people on these boards who have played a lot longer than you have, and therefore have their own experiences to draw from.

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According to the two major regional tournament series out there (PSP & NPPL). This Jerzey has been deemed perfectly acceptable. <FACT>
Talking rec ball here. Not concerned with what happens on the tournament scene.

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I have given countless examples of how the bouncing advertised for it or not is not an issue with good paint. It is <TESTED TRUTH> not an opinion.
How many fields do you know of that hand renters a Tippmann and Ultra Evil?

My question is the same, how much padding is too much padding?
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:30 PM #54
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Has anyone pointed out that the NCPA has banned these jerseys? Thus the "FCR" product on Raza's site.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:47 PM #55
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How much padding is too much padding?
According to the PSP Rulebook (9.1 clothing)

9.1.4. Padding in jerseys is not limited to specific areas; provided that the thickness does not exceed 5mm (0.197”) Padding material is limited to an open cell foam and must not be modified from the manufacture’s original form.

So I guess anything thicker than 5mm is to much padding.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:28 PM #56
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Originally Posted by Castro #66 View Post
Has anyone pointed out that the NCPA has banned these jerseys? Thus the "FCR" product on Raza's site.
Yes. Again comes to choice if you don't like the rules or this padding.. take your business where it should be. It does not change my statement about the two most popular and respected regional paintball venues allow this jerzey. If you deal in facts your argument has no holes. Its when you try to push opinions over facts you run into the simple mans downfall.

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What you have provided is a list of personal experiences, not truths or facts. You should be open to the fact that there may be people on these boards who have played a lot longer than you have, and therefore have their own experiences to draw from.

First of all I doubt it on the experience in paintball comment. Just because you or someone else bought a paintball gat all those years ago does not make you a soothsayer or even experienced paintball player.

That being said , no ones experience is in question. Time in grade DOES NOT make you instantly right. Facts and truth full examples do.

* I am, have been, and will continue to point out your lack of common sense in the issue at hand *

Your inability to accept truths or examples is just as offensive to me, as my facts seem to be to you. The fact is you have not just been bad mouthing an OPTIONAL/ACCEPTED piece of gear. You have taken it as far as making personal slights, and handing some really plumb dumb advice based on nothing but a self righteous opinion.

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This is hilarious. These power puff jerseys are made for bounces, nothing else. If you're 11, wear one. Otherwise this crap is distasteful at the recball field, tourney only.
It is made for bounces in mind for sure, but come to find out there's a nifty safety perk to it as well. OHH YEAH, If we are basing this on your logic on padded safety gear this 11 is going to be a *target* for overshooting just because they have it on..

Hers a lil something I picked up on reffing over the years. The lil 11 year old isnt going to check to see if it broke 90% of the time.. They will just say out and walk off the field.

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Show those renters who's boss!
Seems a bit personal with a hint of implication... Based on what again? Ohh that's right, your opinion.

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It's funny you mention over-shooting, have you ever stopped to think that wearing all this bounce crap makes you a target for over-shooting?

Bruises are a part of the game, they are not unsafe.
This ones a doozy. Goes in the plum dumb category.

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You have a tendency to keep bringing up "the kids", but what does that have to do with you wearing a bounce jersey?
Again personal as it gets? I generally wear what I like though. Who says what I am wearing is wrong? Ohh thats right you do, based on what again?? Your opinion.

. I have had my fill of ringworm marks on my arms over the years.. Im over it and have moved past that point in my paintball exploits. Im in this sport for the long haul and don't need any more welts or scars on my arms.

Your entire argument is based upon an EXTREMELY self righteous OPINION. Which you are entitled to share freely.. UNTIL you start telling people what they should or shouldn't wear to a paintball field.

ESPECIALLY when it does make anyone wearing it safer to have the padding on.<Please continue to argue how padding is not safer. I will refer you to the *common sense* sentence above.

You have no right to slander a stranger for playing shady when they have done nothing wrong by wearing this jerzey or anything like it. If they want to wear a snow suit to play paintball or a gillie suit THEIR CHOICE.

Their reasons are their own for wearing what they want. Your choice to play in it or not is yours. No one is forcing you to, or stopping you from wearing it or anything like it. If you can not accept the current guide lines or restrictions of this sport, you can continue to whine and cry about it or remove yourself from it.

Again, You have every right to whine and cry all you like. What you SHOULDNT do is point fingers saying someone else is doing it WRONG when they ABSOLUTELY are NOT.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:36 PM #57
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I'll just respond by pointing out all of the ironies and oxymorons in your post.

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It does not change my statement about the two most popular and respected regional paintball venues allow this jerzey. If you deal in facts your argument has no holes.

Just because you or someone else bought a paintball gat all those years ago does not make you a soothsayer or even experienced paintball player. That being said , no ones experience is in question.

You have taken it as far as making personal slights, and handing some really plumb dumb advice based on nothing but a self righteous opinion.

Seems a bit personal with a hint of implication... This ones a doozy. Goes in the plum dumb category.

Again, You have every right to whine and cry all you like. What you SHOULDNT do is point fingers saying someone else is doing it WRONG when they ABSOLUTELY are NOT.
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Old 01-29-2013, 07:45 PM #58
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I just can't agree with aiming for the head, if you have their whole back. Sure, if all they stick out of the bunker if the head, shoot it. To purposely aim for the head when you have other options is unsafe. (IMO) But it's a game to me, so I didn't eliminate the player, better luck next game.

Jay
I agree, I said that for the benefit of those who might argue that a backshot player might turn based on the possibility of a bounce to the back. My personal experience is the backshot is pretty foolproof, especially in recball, and I never deliberately aim for back of the head if I have an option.

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You have a tendency to keep bringing up "the kids", but what does that have to do with you wearing a bounce jersey?
Did you read the OP? It's specifically about the experience of a kid and his mother. It sure seems like you have an agenda here.

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Thanks for your approval, but it needs to be pointed out that you are the only one who has resorted to personal attacks in this thread.
You've been no angel. In fact I'd say it's pretty clear what you have meant to insinuate through the whole thread.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:06 PM #59
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Did you read the OP? It's specifically about the experience of a kid and his mother. It sure seems like you have an agenda here.
Yeah, the OP is about an 11 year old kid. I'm unclear on how those same principles apply to a seasoned players in their twenties.

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You've been no angel. In fact I'd say it's pretty clear what you have meant to insinuate through the whole thread.
Agreed The only thing I am trying to insinuate is that I feel strongly about the bounce gear in walk-on games.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:25 AM #60
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:31 PM #61
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Agreed The only thing I am trying to insinuate is that I feel strongly about the bounce gear in walk-on games.
Far too subjective of a standard to uphold. Any one hit may or may not break even on completely unpadded areas. A "fluffy" person may get more bounces than a lean one. Many if not most jerseys have some padding in some areas (forearms, etc), is that considered "bounce gear"?

I catch more bounces off my kneepads and forearm pads than almost anything else, are those "bounce gear"? Is a flexible mask bottom "bounce gear"? How about angled visors? Angled hoppers? Many things are designed with bounces in mind.

To me, front-body hits are the least reliable to begin with, any type of clothing tends to hang like a curtain in that area, and many people have "anatomatical padding." Shoulders, forearms, etc. often catch deflections. So frankly I can't say whether any one shot on a person would have broken were it not for a certain piece of equipment.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:53 PM #62
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Far too subjective of a standard to uphold. Any one hit may or may not break even on completely unpadded areas. A "fluffy" person may get more bounces than a lean one. Many if not most jerseys have some padding in some areas (forearms, etc), is that considered "bounce gear"?
I'm not suggesting setting any new rules or standards for the current situation. Your conscience should dictate what is a fair level of padding given your opponents and surroundings.

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I catch more bounces off my kneepads and forearm pads than almost anything else, are those "bounce gear"? Is a flexible mask bottom "bounce gear"? How about angled visors? Angled hoppers? Many things are designed with bounces in mind.
Touche, but the latest forearm pads (what actual purpose do these serve anyways?) and jerseys are too far IMO. At some point we are going to have to draw a line in the sand, or we will have to use squirt guns to get paint on people.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:07 PM #63
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I'm not suggesting setting any new rules or standards for the current situation. At some point we are going to have to draw a line in the sand, or we will have to use squirt guns to get paint on people.
That is exactly what you have been saying. I dont have the energy to quote it unless you try to deny it. You have directly said they are distasteful and should be banned..

The line HAS been drawn a determination WAS made before the RAZA Jerzeys were even given the go ahead with production. Todd checked off to make sure they would be allowed before dumping money into the Jerzeys. IT IS an accepted piece of clothing.

Whatever its initial intention when first produced is irrelevant. It is a fantastic piece of safety equipment for all ages.


Quote:
Originally Posted by apes4us View Post
Your conscience should dictate what is a fair level of padding given your opponents and surroundings.
I cannot agree more and playing as long as I have I DO NOT feel any shame or like I am doing anything *shady* because I have decided to get smarter and wear this jerzey or any other pads for that matter.

When I first started playing I NEVER wore ANY pads of ANY kind. Over the years the ground has gotten harder so I started wearing the pads. I wish someone sooner would have told me to wise up and use the pads. Maybe that ground wouldn't have gotten as hard as quickly as it did.

When I first started drills I didnt have any gloves, or elbow pads, or bounce caps..

I did my time with snap drills for YEARS before the bounce caps or the fancy elbow pads came out. I can tell you they are ALL FANTASTIC Pieces of equipment.

IF you care to question this logic.. I welcome you to come drill with me and run some snap rounds. You rock your no pad idea.. I will rock my perfectly legal padding. I will buy you your bottle of asprin for the headache you will have and the neosporin 4 the welts on your forearms after we are finished...

The resounding point still remains, the layer of padding found in these jerzeys is a fantastic buffer between a paintball player and the unavoidable impact of the projectiles in paintball. Projectiles which CAN, DO, AND WILL cause bloody welts and leave scars on under protected or bare skin.
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Last edited by onepumpchump13 : 01-30-2013 at 04:11 PM.
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