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Old 01-18-2013, 10:54 AM #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kostis11 View Post
First of all i believe that iknow have a point, or more. A serious company should be responsible enough not to sell regulators if the country's law forbid them. This isabout safety
Secondly can anyone tell me why countries like Greece, Albania and i think Scopia arent coloured and doesnt have the Ninja logo? these tanks wont be for sale there?
We will touch on this more once we have gathered all of the necessary information, links, etc. We need to make sure that we supply the general public and iKNOW with all of the information so there are no further questions about his concerns.

Kostis11 -they aren't colored because that is the graphic our designer chose and it just so happens those countries aren't colored on his graphic. It does not represent anything specific.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:55 AM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iKNOW View Post
Im not mad, just a bit dissapointed as in case of accident or government raid, it can bring down alot of brick and mortar stores and fields in Europe who are tricked by Ninja and other not so serious sellers of illegal regs in Europe. Why you think Rob stopped to post? Because he just like me have read the regulations and knows the truth. Why do I not post the link? Just use google. unfortunately the regulation documents are a bit too complicated to read with cross reference etc, so for the average baller, even with link, he would not know more unfortunately. Besides its not my job to show the regulations, its Ninjas job to prove their regs are allowed before placing them on the market in Europe. just I dont like to see when ballers get tricked by righouts lies, weather intentional or by not having the knowlegde.

besides why do you think ninja talks about getting some PI stamps for certain countries? Because in some countries maybe there have already been government raids on regs and shops and players know the true rules, while in other countries players and shop owners just dont know like Rob (in best case that is, lets hope he is not tricking everyone intentional). Rules are 100% the same for all EU and ECC countries in this field.
Given all your (rare) posts in the last few years have been taking shots at Hydrotec and now Ninja, your spellcheck free rants might carry more weight if backed up by a name and remembering to mention if you currently work for a different paintball company
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:57 AM #45
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I've emailed Steve Bull from the UKPSF to get his input on this situation. Fingers crossed he'll get back to me very soon.
If he says it is fine, then regardless of what iKnow says, it is fine to use in the UK.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:58 AM #46
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Originally Posted by Rob @ Ninja PB View Post
We will touch on this more once we have gathered all of the necessary information, links, etc. We need to make sure that we supply the general public and iKNOW with all of the information so there are no further questions about his concerns.

Kostis11 -they aren't colored because that is the graphic our designer chose and it just so happens those countries aren't colored on his graphic. It does not represent anything specific.

LOL maybe you should have checked this info BEFORE starting to sell and market your product in Europe for two or more years??? Also maybe before you tell all customer who ask if your regs are illegal or not that they are not illegal. Seriously, did you really think its just for fun companies like KEE and other Europea companies put PI stamp on the regs? What will you tell to the thousands of customers that now use your illegal regs in Europe? maybe something like: "Sorry we forgot to check, we just made up that we dont need Pi like other companies have, it was simpler that way, no hassel."
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:02 AM #47
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Originally Posted by juggernaught_lives View Post
I just can't picture Ninja in the background laughing it up as he is saying "...an other ignorant euro shop selling my illegal regs hahahaha".
(and if any of you read this with a Japanese accent that is just wrong LOL)

Most ballers I know are from my era where many of them are college grads in various fields mine being Aerospace Engineering (non-graduated). we can read the docs posted here, but since they are complicated and you're so sure of yourself, then help us understand you. Post a link to the doc from a government source with the PI on Reg claim and point it out to us (Page, Paragraph, Line). If not you're just another ranting lunatic here on PBN.

Even guys from the UK are posting here saying that they are OK to use. That is unless Rob "brainwashed' the shop and the buyer. I also believe this is why we have CUSTOMS and unless I'm mistaking UK/European Countries have some of the toughest customs out there (followed closely by Canada). They would not allow them in with out the proper stamp.
Every time i hear about some guy running around with a tank with reg without PI I think the same. Untill I saw this post I assumed these peuple got the tanks and regs from small shops in the US who do not know better, but seeing that the manufacturer themselves advertise the Pi tanks with illegal regs made quite surprised...
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:04 AM #48
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So iKNOW, tell us about yourself. What's your background etc
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:10 AM #49
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:17 AM #50
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ok - iKNOW might have a point. Steve is looking into the issue and is going to get back to me shortly, but he seems to remember an email from a company stating that REGS must be Pi stamped.

As soon as I hear back for sure, i'll update you.
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:23 AM #51
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Originally Posted by juggernaught_lives View Post
Directive 99/36/EC

article 3 par 3, already did above
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:25 AM #52
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Originally Posted by WildWayz View Post
ok - iKNOW might have a point. Steve is looking into the issue and is going to get back to me shortly, but he seems to remember an email from a company stating that REGS must be Pi stamped.

As soon as I hear back for sure, i'll update you.
LOL sounds professional Ninja. Keep up the good work! What u gonna say to all those poor ballers who have endagered their friends with non approved illegal regs for years in Europe?
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:37 AM #53
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Originally Posted by WildWayz View Post
I've emailed Steve from the UKPSF to get his input on this situation. Fingers crossed he'll get back to me very soon.
If he says it is fine, then regardless of what iKnow says, it is fine to use in the UK.
No, regardless what "steve" says it is still illegal in UK as well as rest of Europe. It does not matter if the tournament leagues or local distributors let you use illegal stuff, it never will makes it "more" legal to use it or buy it or sell it. If you question the official legal documents, hire a professional consultant who can read them for you and "steve".
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:43 AM #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iKNOW View Post
To sell a PI tank with a NON-Pi reg in Europe is illegal. To sell a NON-Pi reg in europe that is intended to use for paintball tanks is illegal too. To sell a non-pi reg for some other special purpose is not illegal. You as the manufacturer of regs should know this and take responsibility. Not all shops and dealers know about these rules and they might trust you and get in lots of troubles. Congrats for selling illegal products to shops and teams in Europe for 2 years!

Cred for writing about your illegal activities openly on a forum!!! GOOD WORK NINJA KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK ****ING TEAMS, SHOPS AND THE GOVERNMENT IN EUROPE. GOOD LUCK NEXT TIME THERE IS AN INSPECTION AND GOVERNMENT FINDS OUT AND YOU HAVE TO RECALL ALL OF YOUR TANKS.

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Old 01-18-2013, 02:43 PM #55
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I'm going to wait for wildwayz to post the response. In the mean time the referral posted does not state that the Reg needs to carry a mandatory PI stamp, just as the tanks required to have a mandatory PI stamp
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:47 PM #56
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**** i just bought a truck the other day and the guy at the dealership didnt tell me I had to drive the speed limit in it. WTF. Im angry
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:49 PM #57
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I've even checked a few web sites including the ones in Europe and in the UK seeing if they're regs carry the PI stamp and there is no mention of needing the PI stamp
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:04 PM #58
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Right-o - here's the word:

Directly from the Department of Transport UK Dangerous Goods Division with regards to transportation of small gas cylinders and fitting for the use of paintball:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0vA...91VXkxR0U/edit

"Valves and regulators have to be CE approved, after all there would be no point in requiring the tank to be approved and then allowing the user to stick a cork in it !"

So basically, providing the reg has been CE approved, and the bottle has been Pi approved, then it is SAFE TO USE IN THE UK (AND EUROPE?).

Now, my Ninja reg does NOT carry the CE mark.. and I cannot see any reference to CE on Ninjas site.

Edit, apologies:


Quote:
6. Summary
6.1 To be marketed and used in the EU, cylinders must be made in accordance with TPED and “π” marked. Valves must be made in accordance with EN ISO 10297, and, as with accessories (with a direct safety function), may be “π” marked or “CE” marked (see para 2 of article 10 of TPED).
6.2 Cylinders must also be marked with the identification of the “notified body

In case Google Docs is playing up: http://www.moose-shack.com/DFT_Paintball_Guidance.pdf
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:15 PM #59
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Originally Posted by WildWayz View Post
Right-o - here's the word:

Directly from the Department of Transport UK Dangerous Goods Division with regards to transportation of small gas cylinders and fitting for the use of paintball:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0vA...91VXkxR0U/edit

"Valves and regulators have to be CE approved, after all there would be no point in requiring the tank to be approved and then allowing the user to stick a cork in it !"

So basically, providing the reg has been CE approved, and the bottle has been Pi approved, then it is SAFE TO USE IN THE UK (AND EUROPE?).

Now, my Ninja reg does NOT carry the CE mark.. and I cannot see any reference to CE on Ninjas site.

Edit, apologies:





So, Ninja - please can you provide you CE testing certificate, then we can put this baby to bed once and for all!
OUPS, RECALL ON ALL EURO REGS NOW NINJA?

NINJA has no PI or CE cert for reg, if they had they would not confess to crimes earlier in this thread...

PS. Told you, you can find it yoruself by some googling.
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:21 PM #60
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Now that we know there is needing of certification, we just need to hear from ninja. Luckily for me I don't need to worry about this. Ninja is a great company, so hopefully this will be cleared quickly.

IKnow, why the hell do you have this vendetta against Ninja? Your posts and thoughts on this are completely bent on, in my opinion/how Iv been taking it, trying to destroy this company.
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:36 PM #61
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Now that we know there is needing of certification, we just need to hear from ninja. Luckily for me I don't need to worry about this. Ninja is a great company, so hopefully this will be cleared quickly.

IKnow, why the hell do you have this vendetta against Ninja? Your posts and thoughts on this are completely bent on, in my opinion/how Iv been taking it, trying to destroy this company.
ROB from Ninja said clearly they dont have PI (or CE) earlier in this thread. This is obviously against the European law, so I got a bit upset, yes... it can ruin alot for paintball over here if something happens or the wrong peuple find out...

And yes, EVEN IF THEY HAVE CERTIFICATES (which they already confirmed they dont have), they still need to print the PI (or CE) on the valves, which they obviously dont do, meaning either way the regs they sell are illegal in Europe.
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:46 PM #62
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It says the regs may be marked not they have to be.
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:48 PM #63
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So, while not a lawyer, I find this:

http://www.eceglobal.com/services/ce...ce-pi-marking/

That has information about CE and PI marking (including noting that the 99/36/EC TPED is the old rule and it's been superseded by 10/35/EU, but that's another thing).

However, under the SPVD EC guidelines is nice flowchart:
http://clients.eceglobal.com/pdf/Dir...Flow_Chart.pdf

If you look there, you see choice one is whether the pressure vessel is less than 50 bar.liters.

What's a bar.liter? It's 1000 joules.

How many joules in a 68/4500 tank?

(68 cubic inches) x (4500 psi) = 306,000 inch-pounds = 34,573 joules

that'd be 35 (rounded up) bar.liters.

As such, if the regulator is manufactured in accordance with sound engineering practice, it needs no CE stamp.
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