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Old 01-16-2013, 08:58 AM #1
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What up August event Nppl set there. Dates and then psp put there event on same weekend way to go psp these leagues should grow up!!!!
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:16 AM #2
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I think its a great move on the part of PSP. Time to force the hand of the other league. the vast majority of paintball would like to see one league, be it PSP or NPPL. Its about time the teams and players had to make a choice on what league they are going to play, if only for one event.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:02 AM #3
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was going to post this up, both have events schedules august 16-18, NPPL has confirmed dates will not change, problem is there is a lot of pro and other teams that play both psp and nppl
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:11 AM #4
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When you make an event schedule, there are a lot of considerations. For example, the NCPA National Championships is April 19-21. I don't care if there was a PSP event that weekend, that's the date we'd have our event because a week later our players have finals and a week earlier there is this huge air show in Lakeland, FL where we host our event and we can't get hotel rooms.

On the national series front, you have to pick the dates that are going to get you the most attendance, obviously. The better you can space out your events, the more time you give teams to get money together. Cup is in late October while Chicago is in late June, so ideally you'd like to have the 4th event right in between. That might be a week later than PSP currently has the 4th event, BUT... that weekend is also the weekend most college students (and some high school students) go back to school, so you go a week earlier to avoid that conflict.

So PSP goes earlier and they're getting too close to their 3rd event; they go later and they have people going back to school. The date PSP picked is the best date for PSP's customers, and any business needs to do what's best for their customers.

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Old 01-16-2013, 11:32 AM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raehl View Post
When you make an event schedule, there are a lot of considerations. For example, the NCPA National Championships is April 19-21. I don't care if there was a PSP event that weekend, that's the date we'd have our event because a week later our players have finals and a week earlier there is this huge air show in Lakeland, FL where we host our event and we can't get hotel rooms.

On the national series front, you have to pick the dates that are going to get you the most attendance, obviously. The better you can space out your events, the more time you give teams to get money together. Cup is in late October while Chicago is in late June, so ideally you'd like to have the 4th event right in between. That might be a week later than PSP currently has the 4th event, BUT... that weekend is also the weekend most college students (and some high school students) go back to school, so you go a week earlier to avoid that conflict.



So PSP goes earlier and they're getting too close to their 3rd event; they go later and they have people going back to school. The date PSP picked is the best date for PSP's customers, and any business needs to do what's best for their customers.

- Chris

thanks Chris, but do you feel the schedule will stay the same and NPPL and PSP will both have events that weekend? that also leads to teams having to pick and also the vendors picking which event to set up at.
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Old 01-16-2013, 12:16 PM #6
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The 2 events hosting the same weekend isnt good for the industry regardless of the situation. Since NPPL posted their schedule first, IMO the PSP should change the date for the 4th event.
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:12 PM #7
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thanks Chris, but do you feel the schedule will stay the same and NPPL and PSP will both have events that weekend? that also leads to teams having to pick and also the vendors picking which event to set up at.
The dates are pretty much irrelevant with NPPL picking Denver as a location. The vast majority of teams that attend any national-level tournament are teams that drive to the event. NPPL's 3rd event last year only had 66 teams, and that's when it was in DC, in the middle of the densest concentration of people in the US. Denver is 10 hours away from pretty much anywhere else. This map is illustrative:

http://geographer-at-large.blogspot....opulation.html

So I doubt much of anyone was going to Denver in the first place. It's not like the events are in anywhere near the same location.

On the vendor front, with the likely lack of attendance at Denver, coupled with the travel to get there, it's unlikely there's any vendors who would have considered going to both even if the dates were separated by a week.


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Old 01-16-2013, 01:22 PM #8
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The 2 events hosting the same weekend isnt good for the industry regardless of the situation. Since NPPL posted their schedule first, IMO the PSP should change the date for the 4th event.
Why? This isn't like calling shotgun.

It's unfortunate that NPPL released the same date PSP was going to release, but PSP isn't going to make things harder for their 2,000 players because maybe 60 people might have played both events if they were on different dates.

And it doesn't affect the industry at all. Denver will have at most 60 teams, probably less than that since you can't drive to it, and I'm not sure there are any sponsors left who attend all of the PSP and NPPL events even when they don't share the same dates.

Worst case scenario is NPPL doesn't move their date and some more lower-division players get an opportunity to play Pro NPPL.

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Old 01-16-2013, 02:23 PM #9
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Why? This isn't like calling shotgun.

It's unfortunate that NPPL released the same date PSP was going to release, but PSP isn't going to make things harder for their 2,000 players because maybe 60 people might have played both events if they were on different dates.

And it doesn't affect the industry at all. Denver will have at most 60 teams, probably less than that since you can't drive to it, and I'm not sure there are any sponsors left who attend all of the PSP and NPPL events even when they don't share the same dates.

Worst case scenario is NPPL doesn't move their date and some more lower-division players get an opportunity to play Pro NPPL.

- Chris
ZINGGGG hahahaa.

I agree. i'm sure both companies have been working on their venus for who knows how many months. just because one releases the schedule a week before hand doesn't all of a sudden get some special priority. Let the customers decide where they want to be that weekend.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:11 PM #10
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This actually bothers me that PSP chose the same date without even having a venue yet, I personally play both leagues and would rather go to Denver because of its fun location. If PSP had a venue set I would agree that changing the date would be hard because you have to get the venue to agree. I love PSP and like playing their events more than I do NPPL but I think this is a dirty move and most likely will choose the NPPL event because of that.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:36 PM #11
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i dont understand what will happen with the pro teams. alot of pro psp teams in 2013 will be competing in both leagues.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:23 PM #12
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Chris, You really have a bad habit of talking down to people or about people (at least that is how it comes across to me). I'm not really sure if it is an internet tough guy thing with you, or if you really think you are smarter and better than everyone on this website. Either way it is really off putting.

As someone who has given a lot of money to the PSP over pretty much the last decade (since 2003), I can't believe you represent the APPA the way that you do. I understand that there is a tiff/feud/bad blood, whatever you want to call it, between the PSP and NPPL but for someone who represents a company that is hired by one of those leagues to come on a public website and put down a group of tournament paintball players is ridiculous and uncalled for. Whether those players play in the PSP or the NPPL, they help keep this entire industry going and for that you should show at least a little respect. Example below:

Quote:
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Worst case scenario is NPPL doesn't move their date and some more lower-division players get an opportunity to play Pro NPPL.
I live in Colorado, I would love to have the teams that I coach be able to play all of the PSP events (which we plan to do) as well as our home town NPPL event. If that isn't possible, then we have a decision to make. As for the number of teams that will be at the Denver event, it would be interesting to look back at the numbers from 04 and 05 and see how it did compared to the other events, If I remember correctly the attendance was very good in comparison to the other NPPL events those years.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:34 PM #13
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Stepchild,

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Chris,
I can't believe you represent the PSP and APPA the way that you do.

Chris does not represent the PSP, he represents Chris and the APPA. The APPA is hired by the PSP to handle registration.

The PSP made a business decision to pick the dates and venues that we did and we are willing to deal with the affects of the decisions. We hope that our decisions allow us to service our customers in the best way that we can. We know that we will not make everyone happy with all of our plans but we do try and do what is best for the majority.

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Old 01-16-2013, 09:09 PM #14
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Stepchild,

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Originally Posted by Stepchild View Post
Chris,
I can't believe you represent the PSP and APPA the way that you do.


Chris does not represent the PSP, he represents Chris and the APPA. The APPA is hired by the PSP to handle registration.

The PSP made a business decision to pick the dates and venues that we did and we are willing to deal with the affects of the decisions. We hope that our decisions allow us to service our customers in the best way that we can. We know that we will not make everyone happy with all of our plans but we do try and do what is best for the majority.

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Tom,

I understand that Chris does not work for the PSP. But, I also have the benefit of having attended national tournaments since 1999 and realize that the psp and APPA are 2 different entities. Unfortunate for the psp, many of the players on this website do not make a distinction between the two. While Chris, that I know of, has never claimed to be a representative of the PSP his comments sometimes come across that way. Granted, I probably should have left the PSP name out of my little rant, and I will probably go back and edit it, it just irritates me.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:14 PM #15
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Didn't PSP sign like a 5-year contract with OXCC for hosting the 4th event? Or am I just dreaming **** up?
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:34 PM #16
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Dr Vickers -- Raehl irritates me, too. And for the record, this is not his made up web persona you see here. He is authentic.
But Chris Raehl is a dedicated, motivated, hard working, intelligent, trustworthy, loyal paintball figure. He works tirelessly to promote paintball and is passionate about it's success. He just isn't a great public relations guy. And coming from me, with my track record, that's saying something. We've learned to take the bad with the good. And there is a lot more good than bad with Raehl. He just displays his bad side publicly.

Pasco - You may have made that up. Or you may have read it here posted by one of the all knowing PbNation posters. You know they can't put it on the Internet if it isn't true, right? I've been made aware of several "multi-year" contracts we supposedly had with venues right here on PbNation.

For the record - PSP has no multi year deals with any venue. Period.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:26 PM #17
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Chris, You really have a bad habit of talking down to people or about people (at least that is how it comes across to me). I'm not really sure if it is an internet tough guy thing with you, or if you really think you are smarter and better than everyone on this website. Either way it is really off putting.

As someone who has given a lot of money to the PSP over pretty much the last decade (since 2003), I can't believe you represent the APPA the way that you do. I understand that there is a tiff/feud/bad blood, whatever you want to call it, between the PSP and NPPL but for someone who represents a company that is hired by one of those leagues to come on a public website and put down a group of tournament paintball players is ridiculous and uncalled for. Whether those players play in the PSP or the NPPL, they help keep this entire industry going and for that you should show at least a little respect. Example below:



I live in Colorado, I would love to have the teams that I coach be able to play all of the PSP events (which we plan to do) as well as our home town NPPL event. If that isn't possible, then we have a decision to make. As for the number of teams that will be at the Denver event, it would be interesting to look back at the numbers from 04 and 05 and see how it did compared to the other events, If I remember correctly the attendance was very good in comparison to the other NPPL events those years.

well said Doc.
I believe Chris's personal beef with the NPPL has more to do with his theory and response then he would like to admit. if i remember correctly the NPPL events that were held here had great turnouts.
also his statement of you can't drive to denver is pretty ridiculous. it's closer then maryland for all the west coast and texas region teams, and it's practically the same distance from the midwest state's like illinois, michigan etc. (a little further not a lot) then having teams from those states drive to maryland.
wisconsin, minnesota,and iowa all are either shorter distance or same distance.

Mr. raehls responses are the result of a ongoing childish pissing match that has been going on between him (APPA) and the NPPL for years, neither sides have handled it like adults who wear their big boy pants, it's pretty pathetic.

i see more then the 60 teams then chris has predicted i honestly see more then those who attended NPPL chicago for the past few years.
NPPL DC sucked because it's right in the heart of XBALL country there aren't a ton of 7man teams out their and traveling to DC and through the VA area is a nightmare $$$$$ wise i do it for work 3-4 times a year. i'm sure there are tons of other reason for it. and chris's little map even proves it ton's of people very little turnout. so it shows people on the east coast must prefer XBALL more.

now back to denver it's a brand new venue easy to drive to or fly into the event venue is 10-15 mins from the airport 5 mins from downtown denver with our amazing nightlife it's being held at possibly one of the best venues ever which is a youth soccer field complex that is on the property, owned, and maintained by the same people who maintain the field for the pro soccer and lacrosse team's field in the stadium. flights, hotels, and rental cars are cheap cause the Ski areas are closed because season is over, and there's many other enticing things that i will believe will bring players and teams out here .

i'm not an NPPL fan boy i Play both leagues i played all 5 PSP events last year (D1X) and all 4 NPPL events as well, I prefer the PSP, i like the xball race2 format better. and have had some issues with a few members of the NPPL staff during events that has almost made me never wanna play in their league again.
But at the same time i was very excited to see an event come back to Denver and i'm kinda hoping the PSP works around this little hiccup with the NPPL. You guys are the more dominant league and if you change your dates I honestly don't see it hurting your turnout the players will whine and complain but i bet they'll still show up.

I wrote this from my phone so excuse the Grammer, puntuation, spellling etc etc we all know typing and editing on a phone is a pain and makes you wan't to throw your phone
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:48 PM #18
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I think the venders will step in and something will change. Companies have no realistic way of supporting 2 major events in 2 different locations at the same time.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:52 PM #19
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As was stated above, realize that while the PSP released their schedule after the NPPL by a few weeks, both leagues have been working on those dates and venues for months and it could absolutely just be 'the best dates both leagues could come up with for the players' vs. some sort of pissing match between the leagues.

I'm not saying there ISN'T some bad blood between the leagues, but it may have just been happenstance. We'll only know if one of the league leaders steps forward and tells us how it went down.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:10 AM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raehl View Post
Worst case scenario is NPPL doesn't move their date and some more lower-division players get an opportunity to play Pro NPPL.

- Chris

Quote:
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I think the venders will step in and something will change. Companies have no realistic way of supporting 2 major events in 2 different locations at the same time.
I think vendors stepping in will result in more support of the PSP and less support for the NPPL, regardless of the alleged pissing match.

As for the people that have a problem with Chris, he gets his always right attitude from being right. Say what you want about the way Chris makes his point, but you're looking at an accurate representation of the subject, sans sugar coat. Besides, I recall a certain league more or less copying the APPA and calling it their own a while back. IP theft is plenty good reason to not like someone.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:46 AM #21
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Let the players and vendors decide with their attendance. I think we will see an overwhelming support of the PSP over the NPPL.
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