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Old 01-17-2013, 07:12 PM #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerkler View Post
Any of you ever come close to needing a gun to defend yourself? This isn't the 1700's, who cares if you can't have a gun?
Yes.

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Originally Posted by Kellster View Post
Nobody needs an AR-15. They're manufactured for the purpose of killing people. Limiting the supply of those sorts of firearms is a good realistic goal in reducing these mass shootings.

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Originally Posted by imhungry View Post
no they arent. an AR-15 is the same thing as a semi-auto hunting rifle it just looks like an M16. that is the long and short of it.

edit: no one defends themselves from criminals with a <del>****</del>ing rifle. stop making that argument, its just stupid. well, i guess idiots do it but its still dumb
You both should read about the LA riots. Lots of business and home owners used "assault rifles" to protect their lives and property in a time that police were either too busy or simply refused to respond because it was to dangerous.

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Well, sure, but the idea is that you limit the supply of these arms.
Yeah, cause government attempts to limit the supply of things works so well. See war on drugs and prohibition.

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An AR-15 is just a civilian version of the M16. It shoots a 5.56/.223. That's the caliber the military uses in its assault rifles.
You are wrong. Please stop.

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Yeah, but assault rifles are most effective in mass shootings.
And wrong again. There is nothing about an "assault rifle" that makes it more effective than another rifle of the same caliber. The features that make a rifle an assault rifle are mostly cosmetic and have little to no impact on the effect of the rifle itself.



I didn't quote the comment but several times IMHUNGRY made the comment that he didn't care about ammo magazine limits on rifles because he doesn't have one so it doesn't impact him. So, are you saying that you're ok with the government infringing on it's citizens rights as long as they aren't rights you take advantage of? That's a pretty stupid stance to take.

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Old 01-17-2013, 07:17 PM #485
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Laphroaig is my favorite. I'm quickly becoming a huge fan of the mossy/oaky flavored ones. My buddy has a pretty tremendous collection building right now, so every once in awhile we'll have a marathon sipping sesh.
This is good ****. I like my Laphroaig 10 way more than my glenlivet 16..


Jesus Christ. I thought this hungry for change documentary might be interesting but instead I find myself yelling at my tv about horrible scientific methods, and horrible analogies such as 'look at children's cereal, I mean it's almost healthier to roll up the kids sleeve and inject him with heroin' yeah ok bud, way to ruin your credibility there.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:18 PM #486
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If you think mass shootings will go away with a ban on assault weapons, you're ****ing retarded. Being able to own an assault rifle is simply my right as an American. If I chose to defend my house with an assault rifle, so be it, and if you dont think someone can do just as much damage with a 9mm or 40 or 45 pistol, you're absolutely kidding yourself into believing the mass media hype.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:27 PM #487
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I seriously doubt that. Id be shocked if it was more than 15 grand for most players. .
I know for sure 5 pro teams have their players salaried.
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If you think mass shootings will go away with a ban on assault weapons, you're ****ing retarded. Being able to own an assault rifle is simply my right as an American. If I chose to defend my house with an assault rifle, so be it, and if you dont think someone can do just as much damage with a 9mm or 40 or 45 pistol, you're absolutely kidding yourself into believing the mass media hype.
But bro, if we get rid of all the guns, then nobody will have them to kill other people with!
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:34 PM #488
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They'd do less damage than fully automatic machine guns with extended mags and the Last Stand perk activated, so yeah, I'm all for this ban.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:46 PM #489
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he has made millions upon millions destroying people in defamation law suits that were completely legit (its actually pretty well known that he would intimidate and threaten people and if that did not work he would bury them). he ruined multiple lives and careers as a result. the dude is a piece of **** regardless of his charity stuff
A lot of people would do the same thing if someone came after their career just to bring them down.
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I bet they are swimming in cash and ***** too

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If you think mass shootings will go away with a ban on assault weapons, you're ****ing retarded. Being able to own an assault rifle is simply my right as an American. If I chose to defend my house with an assault rifle, so be it, and if you dont think someone can do just as much damage with a 9mm or 40 or 45 pistol, you're absolutely kidding yourself into believing the mass media hype.
This. I forgot who posted it but I quoted him back when we had the conversation. Paraphrased it was basically the drug dealers and gang bangers aren't buying their weapons legally so this isn't going to do anything.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:52 PM #490
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If you think mass shootings will go away with a ban on assault weapons, you're ****ing retarded. Being able to own an assault rifle is simply my right as an American. If I chose to defend my house with an assault rifle, so be it, and if you dont think someone can do just as much damage with a 9mm or 40 or 45 pistol, you're absolutely kidding yourself into believing the mass media hype.
The Federal Assualt Weapons Ban was enacted in 1994 and lasted until 2004.

The Columbine School shooting occured in 1999.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:13 PM #491
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Something I thought was interesting.

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“How many kids have been killed by school fire in all of North America in the past 50 years? Kids killed... school fire... North America... 50 years... How many? Zero. That’s right. Not one single kid has been killed by school fire anywhere in North America in the past half a century. Now, how many kids have been killed by school violence?”

So began an extraordinary daylong seminar presented by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, a Pulitzer Prize nominated author, West Point psychology professor, and without a doubt the world’s foremost expert on human aggression and violence. The event, hosted by the California Peace Officers Association, was held in the auditorium of a very large community church about 30 miles from San Francisco, and was attended by more than 250 police officers from around the region.

Grossman’s talk spanned myriad topics of vital importance to law enforcement, such as the use of autogenic breathing, surviving gunshot wounds, dealing with survivor guilt following a gun battle, and others. But violence among and against children was how the day began, and so I'll focus on that issue here.

“In 1998,” Grossman said, “school violence claimed what at the time was an all time record number of kids’ lives. In that year there were 35 dead and a quarter of a million serious injuries due to violence in the school. How many killed by fire that year? Zero. But we hear people say, ‘That’s the year Columbine happened, that’s an anomaly.’ Well, in 2004 we had a new all time record — 48 dead in the schools from violence. How many killed by fire that year? Zero. Let’s assign some grades. Put your teacher hat on and give out some grades. What kind of grade do you give the firefighter for keeping kids safe? An ‘A,’ right? Reluctantly, reluctantly, the cops give the firefighters an ‘A,’ right? Danged firefighters, they sleep ‘till they’re hungry and eat ‘till they’re tired. What grade do we get for keeping the kids safe from violence? Come on, what’s our grade? Needs improvement, right?”

Johnny Firefighter, A+ Student
“Why can’t we be like little Johnny Firefighter?” Grossman asked as he prowled the stage. “He’s our A+ student!”

He paused, briefly, and answered with a voice that blew through the hall like thunder, “Denial, denial, denial!”

Grossman commanded, “Look up at the ceiling! See all those sprinklers up there? They’re hard to spot — they’re painted black — but they’re there. While you’re looking, look at the material the ceiling is made of. You know that that stuff was selected because it’s fire-retardant. Hooah? Now look over there above the door — you see that fire exit sign? That’s not just any fire exit sign — that’s a ‘battery-backup-when-the-world-ends-it-will-still-be-lit’ fire exit sign. Hooah?”

Walking from the stage toward a nearby fire exit and exterior wall, Grossman slammed the palm of his hand against the wall and exclaimed, “Look at these wall boards! They were chosen because they’re what?! Fireproof or fire retardant, hooah? There is not one stinking thing in this room that will burn!”

Pointing around the room as he spoke, Grossman continued, “But you’ve still got those fire sprinklers, those fire exit signs, fire hydrants outside, and fire trucks nearby! Are these fire guys crazy? Are these fire guys paranoid? No! This fire guy is our A+ student! Because this fire guy has redundant, overlapping layers of protection, not a single kid has been killed by school fire in the last 50 years!

“But you try to prepare for violence — the thing much more likely to kill our kids in schools, the thing hundreds of times more likely to kill our kids in schools — and people think you’re paranoid. They think you’re crazy. ...They’re in denial.”

Teaching the Teachers
The challenge for law enforcement agencies and officers, then, is to overcome not only the attacks taking place in schools, but to first overcome the denial in the minds of mayors, city councils, school administrators, and parents. Grossman said that agencies and officers, although facing an uphill slog against the denial of the general public, must diligently work toward increasing understanding among the sheep that the wolves are coming for their children. Police officers must train and drill with teachers, not only so responding officers are intimately familiar with the facilities, but so that teachers know what they can do in the event of an attack.

“Come with me to the library at Columbine High School,” Grossman said. “The teacher in the library at Columbine High School spent her professional lifetime preparing for a fire, and we can all agree if there had been a fire in that library, that teacher would have instinctively, reflexively known what to do.

"But the thing most likely to kill her kids — the thing hundreds of times more likely to kill her kids, the teacher didn’t have a clue what to do. She should have put those kids in the librarian’s office but she didn’t know that. So she did the worst thing possible — she tried to secure her kids in an un-securable location. She told the kids to hide in the library — a library that has plate glass windows for walls. It’s an aquarium, it’s a fish bowl. She told the kids to hide in a fishbowl. What did those killers see? They saw targets. They saw fish in a fish bowl.”

Grossman said that if the school administrators at Columbine had spent a fraction of the money they’d spent preparing for fire doing lockdown drills and talking with local law enforcers about the violent dangers they face, the outcome that day may have been different.

Rhetorically he asked the assembled cops, “If somebody had spent five minutes telling that teacher what to do, do you think lives would have been saved at Columbine?”

Arming Campus Cops is Elementary
Nearly two years ago, I wrote an article called Arming campus cops is elementary. Not surprisingly, Grossman agrees with that hypothesis.

“Never call an unarmed man ‘security’,” Grossman said.

“Call him ‘run-like-hell-when-the-man-with-the-gun-shows-up’ but never call an unarmed man security.

"Imagine if someone said, ‘I want a trained fire professional on site. I want a fire hat, I want a fire uniform, I want a fire badge. But! No fire extinguishers in this building. No fire hoses. The hat, the badge, the uniform — that will keep us safe — but we have no need for fire extinguishers.’ Well, that would be insane. It is equally insane, delusional, legally liable, to say, ‘I want a trained security professional on site. I want a security hat, I want a security uniform, and I want a security badge, but I don’t want a gun.’ It’s not the hat, the uniform, or the badge. It’s the tools in the hands of a trained professional that keeps us safe.

“Our problem is not money,” said Grossman. “It is denial.”

....the speech was given in 2010.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:17 PM #492
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You both should read about the LA riots. Lots of business and home owners used "assault rifles" to protect their lives and property in a time that police were either too busy or simply refused to respond because it was to dangerous.


so they used an inferior defense weapon to defend themselves? good to know, a rifle was a decent defense weapon an in extremely unique situation. ill continue to use a shotgun for defense since i like to use the most effective thing possible and not a rifle where i end up killing my next door neighbor when the round goes through the wall.


im not saying to ban assault weapons or anything, im just saying a rifle is a ****ty home/personal defense weapon. if all i had was a rifle i would use it but i would never buy one for the explicit reason of defense or even have it close to the top of my list of good defense weapons.

Last edited by imhungry : 01-17-2013 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:37 PM #493
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The Federal Assualt Weapons Ban was enacted in 1994 and lasted until 2004.

The Columbine School shooting occured in 1999.
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Something I thought was interesting.




....the speech was given in 2010.
^ all of that.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:43 PM #494
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Nobody needs an AR-15. They're manufactured for the purpose of killing people. Limiting the supply of those sorts of firearms is a good realistic goal in reducing these mass shootings.
you're more than welcome to go over to the political forum so we can educate you. This isn't the place for it
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:45 PM #495
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so they used an inferior defense weapon to defend themselves? good to know, a rifle was a decent defense weapon an in extremely unique situation. ill continue to use a shotgun for defense since i like to use the most effective thing possible and not a rifle where i end up killing my next door neighbor when the round goes through the wall.

im not saying to ban assault weapons or anything, im just saying a rifle is a ****ty home/personal defense weapon. the vast majority of people do not buy rifles for home defense weapons unless they are idiots or just saying they are using it for defense for some reason.
00 Buck is more likely to over penetrate than 5.56.

5.56 is the best possible self defense round. It's designed to enter, fragmentate, and exit as tiny little pieces due to the issues of OP in hostage situations.

So you're using #8 birdshot in your home defense shotgun, right?
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:56 PM #496
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so they used an inferior defense weapon to defend themselves? good to know, a rifle was a decent defense weapon an in extremely unique situation. ill continue to use a shotgun for defense since i like to use the most effective thing possible and not a rifle where i end up killing my next door neighbor when the round goes through the wall.


im not saying to ban assault weapons or anything, im just saying a rifle is a ****ty home/personal defense weapon. if all i had was a rifle i would use it but i would never buy one for the explicit reason of defense or even have it close to the top of my list of good defense weapons.
Both are great home defense weapons. The key is getting the right caliber....an AK firing a 7.62x39 is not the right caliber for home defense.

The destructive power of a .223 on a human is MUCH worse than buckshot. The minute that .223 round hits you the tip breaks apart sending shards everywhere and the bullet starts to tumble. Given the speed it's traveling it runs no risk of bone stopping it.

Some bullets are better at tumbling than others once they come into contact with a target. This is one reason why the russians started using the 5.45 over the 7.62x39. This thumbling is how you cause massive damage to a soft target.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:59 PM #497
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Until that ***** goes out the other side and through the three walls on the other side. Rifles/shotguns aren't meant for home defense.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:01 PM #498
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Gun discussion again?

I'll make you guys a deal. You can have the south and all the guns you want. Then you can secede from the U.S. We'll build a big *** wall and go our seperate ways.

We all get what we want.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:04 PM #499
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The destructive power of a .223 on a human is MUCH worse than buckshot. The minute that .223 round hits you the tip breaks apart sending shards everywhere and the bullet starts to tumble. Given the speed it's traveling it runs no risk of bone stopping it.

Some bullets are better at tumbling than others once they come into contact with a target. This is one reason why the russians started using the 5.45 over the 7.62x39. This thumbling is how you cause massive damage to a soft target.
Wow. Are you even aware of how retarded you sound?
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:07 PM #500
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Until that ***** goes out the other side and through the three walls on the other side. Rifles/shotguns aren't meant for home defense.
They are much better than a pistol. Pistol round rely too much on shot placement. They are moving slow and they don't tumble. This is why they encourage you to use hollow points for personal defense. The hollow point bullets spread out the surface area allowing the bullet to have the potential to hit the right spot.

The lethality of a pistol is extremely low when compared to a rifle. There's been studies on this and some that paint the picture that the pistol caliber really doesn't come into play with lethality. It's really interesting and i'll try to dig it up for you all.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:07 PM #501
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Wow. I'd love to know where you get your information.... Because its wrong.
a doctor that practices in gun shot wounds

please correct anything in the statement
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:08 PM #502
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Wow. I'd love to know where you get your information.... Because its wrong.
Give credit where it's due, half of its right.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:08 PM #503
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If you think mass shootings will go away with a ban on assault weapons, you're ****ing retarded. Being able to own an assault rifle is simply my right as an American. If I chose to defend my house with an assault rifle, so be it, and if you dont think someone can do just as much damage with a 9mm or 40 or 45 pistol, you're absolutely kidding yourself into believing the mass media hype.
I think I am going to be a felon soon if they pass this ****ing stupid *** law like NY did restricting mags to 7 rounds. Seriously how the **** do they come up with this stuff. 7 rounds is so much safer than 10?
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:10 PM #504
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I'm not to concerned, this congress won't pass anything. Soon the Fiscal Cliff and Debt Ceiling will be all we hear about.

Also, student loan bubble.
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