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Old 01-11-2013, 12:32 PM #1
StyngRay2
 
 
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V1 Victory Velocity Low

Working on a friends V1 vic won't get above 260 fps

-supercharged engine
-virtue board
-Crossfire lp tank.

--What I've done--
-changed lpr piston oring
-cleaned relubed changed bolt orings that I have on hand (dont have all the smal thin size orings)
-reset pressures per manual
-tried different gages on pressure tester just in case
-new battery
-tried stock engine
-tried a different super charged engine
-tried a different HPR
-good paint to barrel match
-made hpr adjustments in very small increments


What I haven't tried yet
-tearing it completely down, cleaning in hot soapy water and changing every singe oring. (which I dont have)
-messing with dwell.
-slp tank??
-different noid, differnt lpr??

Looking for suggestions....
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:39 PM #2
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sorry i cant help you, but i would just like to say, this is how every post in here should be.
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:49 PM #3
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With virtue boards the dwell has to run a little higher then normal. Start with 8ms-10ms.

Have you sweet spotted the regs?
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:05 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamer565 View Post
With virtue boards the dwell has to run a little higher then normal. Start with 8ms-10ms.

Have you sweet spotted the regs?
I will try messing with dwell. I have done this http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3132514

But I found your post about the sweetspotting. Which I will try tonight as well before messing with dwell..I have a weird feeling this will work...., as i get increases in velocity but then it starts dropping while only messing with hpr...its that hole bell curve thing...aka "the reason why i like traditional poppets and dislike inlines" at least as far as tuning goes...


Lurker method of sweetspotting regs.

1: Back out both regs or Zero out both the LPR and HPR to 0psi
2: Raise HPR slightly only to set LPR for cycling
3: Raise LPR to fully cycling ~45psi or so
4: Raise HPR until velocity begins to stop rising as you increase pressure
5: Raise LPR to desired velocity
6: Lower HPR a bit, then raise if necessary... you're trying to find the best HPR setting at the LPR setting you have. This may put your velocity over 300/285
7: Lower LPR slightly to field velocity


Thanks...anything else I can add to my list?
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:31 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StyngRay2 View Post
as i get increases in velocity but then it starts dropping while only messing with hpr...

Sounds like you are on the right track, sweetspotting should fix the issue. The only thing I was going to add was cleaning/relubing your lpr.

Just think of it this way, if your velocity starts dropping you need a little more pressure from you're LPR to open the valve. It can be a pain in the butt if you don't tech them often but if you do it seems second nature.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:50 PM #6
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Originally Posted by Bluedun View Post
Sounds like you are on the right track, sweetspotting should fix the issue. The only thing I was going to add was cleaning/relubing your lpr.

Just think of it this way, if your velocity starts dropping you need a little more pressure from you're LPR to open the valve. It can be a pain in the butt if you don't tech them often but if you do it seems second nature.
Thank you.

I cleaned lubed and swapped lpr piston oring already. Had a couple freestyles that constantly had to have regs sweet spotted...but it seemed much easier...then with these vic's.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:59 PM #7
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Change the orings on the bottom of the engine to buna 70 orings, size 7. Should get you some velocity easily.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:34 PM #8
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Change the orings on the bottom of the engine to buna 70 orings, size 7. Should get you some velocity easily.
Sweet..will do.
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:01 PM #9
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Is changing the 006 to an 007 something new ? if so i might give it a try also .
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:08 PM #10
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Before you get to involved set your hpr to about 180 and start upping your lpr to about 85 , i was messing around with a v1 and v2 today with the same problem , here in Canada it's cold and that did the trick for me
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Old 01-11-2013, 04:51 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StyngRay2 View Post
I will try messing with dwell. I have done this http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3132514

But I found your post about the sweetspotting. Which I will try tonight as well before messing with dwell..I have a weird feeling this will work...., as i get increases in velocity but then it starts dropping while only messing with hpr...its that hole bell curve thing...aka "the reason why i like traditional poppets and dislike inlines" at least as far as tuning goes...
A "traditional" poppet and inline poppet will react the exact same when it some to sweet spotting, moving the ram behind the bolt does not change how the pressures have to balance out.
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:01 PM #12
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Actually not so much all the marq series is a balanced valve
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:04 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamer565 View Post
A "traditional" poppet and inline poppet will react the exact same when it some to sweet spotting, moving the ram behind the bolt does not change how the pressures have to balance out.
Ive sweet spotted my fare share of poppets...mostly timmies....i see what you are saying kinda....but it is a much more of a pain in the you know what to sweet spot these inlines then it ever has been to sweet spot an intimidator....never had a timmy go down in velocity when i upped the hpr....and up in velocity when i decreased hpr pressure....stupid bell curve...
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:50 PM #14
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ok so i tried sweet spotting the regs and the highest velocity i could get was 200...however I noticed the lpr is only getting up to 80 psi max with the the adjustment screw all the way in. I put the bigger orings on the bottom of the engine but that didnt help. Sick of this damn thing....could it be the lpr? shouldnt i be able to get higher then 80 psi?. havent messed with dwell yet but thats my nexy try...if that doesnt work ill try swapping lprs. as my other victory gets up to 100 psi on lpr pressure with it all the way in...i mean the manual says to set it 75-85...??
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:57 PM #15
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Shouldn't need the LPR that high anyway.

What's your dwell and HPR pressure at?
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:08 PM #16
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dwells at 6 gonna try 8 later... hpr doesnt matter where because ive tried any where between 160 and 220 with every signge lpr pressure between 55-80.... but it doesnt make sense it wont get above 80 if the manual says 85....and my other victory goes all the way to 100...
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:11 PM #17
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but even with lpr @ 80 and hpr @ 190 i would get 200 fps...any more on hpr and it starts dropping off.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:12 PM #18
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As ive stated before with virtue boards you have to run the dwell higher then the factory board. Start at 8ms then try 10ms.

Might have to resweetspot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StyngRay2 View Post
but even with lpr @ 80 and hpr @ 190 i would get 200 fps...any more on hpr and it starts dropping off.
Then that means you have passed the sweetspot..
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:54 PM #19
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Take the ram out and roll it along the table. Look at it from the side as it rolls and see if there is any wobble. This is basically making sure that it is still straight.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:35 PM #20
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Originally Posted by gamer565 View Post
As ive stated before with virtue boards you have to run the dwell higher then the factory board. Start at 8ms then try 10ms.

Might have to resweetspot.



Then that means you have passed the sweetspot..
Quote:
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Take the ram out and roll it along the table. Look at it from the side as it rolls and see if there is any wobble. This is basically making sure that it is still straight.
I tried dwell setting of 8 and 10....no change even after re-sweet spotting...i will check the ram tomorrow.
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:26 PM #21
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couldn't sleep last night because this rubics cube of a paintball marker just wont let me get a good night sleep until it's fixed.........so I snuck out of bed and changed out all orings that I had for it last night. I got a few of the odd sizes but not all..Changed LPR and HPR piston orings as well, i had all of the engine orings except for 1X12mm which is the bigger one that goes on the outside of the blast guide and I didn't have the 1x14 mm for the back block, so I just lubed those with dow 55 and called it a night. Reassembled everything and will try sweet spotting regs again after work.

Just so I know I am doing this right and hopefully save me from wasting any more paint..this is how I am doing it: but bottom line is I'm not getting velocity with step 5 before the lpr bottoms out.

-zero out both regs
-increase hpr just to get air into the gun
-increase lpr until it cycles
-then chrono
-increase hpr until velocity stops going up
-increase lpr until desired velocity---but this never happens...lpr bottoms out before I get my velocity, then by the time I check with pressure gage it says 80...so even with increasing HPR more or lowering it I might get a little bit more velocity out of it but then it drops off.


^^^am I missing something??

I haven't shot it yet....hopefully it was on of the orings I changed last night. I have 10X oring kit on the way.

My questions are:

Could the 2 orings i named above (which I haven't changed yet) cause this?

Could an air passage in the body somewhere have old, dried up lube/gunk in it cause this?

I have no tri-flow, Could that cause this?

Could a dirty noid cause this?

I will check the ram for straightness next time I tear it down.
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