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View Poll Results: Military size should be reduced?
Yes 26 63.41%
No 15 36.59%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-11-2013, 08:18 AM #43
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Ofcourse we need humans to operate the technology. I'm refering to how "ground troops" are becoming obsolete.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:29 AM #44
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They aren't, and never will be. You're still going to need something with 5+ senses on a battlefield.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:54 AM #45
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They aren't, and never will be. You're still going to need something with 5+ senses on a battlefield.
+1

Ground troops will not become obsolete. You cannot win anything until you occupy their territory and impose your will upon them.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:57 AM #46
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+1

Ground troops will not become obsolete. You cannot win anything until you occupy their territory and impose your will upon them.
The sure seems to be working in Afghanistan.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:12 AM #47
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The sure seems to be working in Afghanistan.
I went to Afghanistan twice. On the ground, with a rifle, patroling for an enemy.

Frankly, Afghanistan proves the point that you will always need to put someone on the ground. You can hide from planes, you can mix in with the local population to defeat ISR platforms, but if you physically occupy space on the ground, you prevent the enemy from accomplishing their goals.

Afghanistan shows what happens when you DON'T put troops on the ground. The Bush administration tried to fight it with fighters and drones, only to find out they were failing because they simply couldn't deny the enemy the freedom to move. Hence the drawdown in Iraq and the surge in to Afghanistan in 2008-2010.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:18 AM #48
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Technology has never won a war.
I think Japan begs to differ.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:20 AM #49
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I fail to see how ground troops were effective in Afghanistan, it appears to be returning to the way it was prior to the invasion. They hardly accomplished anything.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:28 AM #50
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Technology is useless without the human behind it. The most important thing a military can have is a well trained soldier/airman/sailor/Marine
Exactly. That's why I'm saying that I would rather have a smaller force with better training and better equipment than a large force as is. After you've trained and equipped these soldiers your standing army will cost less to maintain and retain equal or better effectiveness.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:18 AM #51
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I think Japan begs to differ.
Oh really? How did the bomb get dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? What made the decision to drop said bomb?

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I fail to see how ground troops were effective in Afghanistan, it appears to be returning to the way it was prior to the invasion. They hardly accomplished anything.
You clearly need to take a look at the history of our war in Afghanistan.

Inital invasion = Taliban/AQ destroyed
Withdrawl of troops from Afghanistan to Iraq = Re-emergence of Taliban and shadow government
Push of troops back in to Afghanistan starting in 2008 = The end of the Taliban's insurgency. They are forced to stop fighting and begin trying to become a legitimate political party in Afghanstan. AQ's ability to conduct insurgency operations within Afghanistan is greatly inhibited by mid to late 2011.
Current policy is to draw down = Re-emergence of AQ and other insurgent groups


Basically, we put troops on the ground, they don't want to come out and play. We take them away, they try to force their will on the people. We bombed the everliving **** out of them from 2003 - 2007. Did nothing to affect the Taliban's insurgency. You can't hand out food and supplies from a drone. People can't walk up to a fighter and tell them that tonight, a mid level Taliban leader is coming to threaten the mulah. You can't ambush and capture said leader with a recon satellite.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:33 AM #52
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Oh really? How did the bomb get dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? What made the decision to drop said bomb?
You're splitting hairs. Had Tibbets flow the Enola Gay over Hiroshima and dropped the 20,000 lb standard loadout of simple incendiary devices, it's highly doubtful the Japanese would have surrendered. The technology behind the Little Boy and the devastation it represented was driving force behind the Empire's decision, not the mere action of flying the plane and targeting a city.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:37 AM #53
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Slateman: The ground war has failed to solve the problem. When was the last time the ground forces were victorious? Korea?
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:42 AM #54
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Slateman: The ground war has failed to solve the problem. When was the last time the ground forces were victorious? Korea?
I don't think that's really an issue of an alleged ineffectiveness/uselessness of ground forces, but rather a failure to adequately understand the "problem" attempted to be solved military actions and thus an inability to define "victory."
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:38 PM #55
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They aren't, and never will be. You're still going to need something with 5+ senses on a battlefield.
Maybe too play world police, but there is very little need for soldiers when it comes to national defense.

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You cannot win anything until you occupy their territory and impose your will upon them.
We bombed Japan into submission, and then freely walked onto Japan's shores. Or will was imposed through the use of the atom bomb.

Your should be thaking the scientists and engineers who developed the bomb, saving the lives of countless draftees, who would have died if we had to use ground forces to invade Japan.
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:45 PM #56
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Maybe too play world police, but there is very little need for soldiers when it comes to national defense...
What the hell... that isn't what you mean. Either expound, or rephrase.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:03 PM #57
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Nuclear deterrence protects us, not the ground forces. The ground troops mainly act as world police, to enforce the politcal agendas.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:13 PM #58
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Nuclear deterrence protects from nuclear attack. That is it.

We are not debating what the military is currently being used for abroad.

I am sorry, but for this argument you are incorrect.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:29 PM #59
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Nuclear deterrence protects from nuclear attack. That is it.

We are not debating what the military is currently being used for abroad.

I am sorry, but for this argument you are incorrect.
You don't think that how we use and intend to use our military dictates the size and technology we need?
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:32 PM #60
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You don't think that how we use and intend to use our military dictates the size and technology we need?
Of course it does, but that isn't what he is saying.

It seems to be accepted by the majority posting that to decrease manning safely you have to also decrease missions, and OPTEMPO (different words may be used, but the meaning is the same). You can't replace every soldier with a machine, robot, or a video camera and call it good. You will still need a human being with 5+ senses and the ability to reason.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:36 PM #61
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Nuclear deterrence protects from nuclear attack. That is it.
Actually it protects us from the threat of ground invasion, since anyone who tries invading the U.S. can have their country instantly destroyed in retaliation.
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:39 PM #62
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Actually it protects us from the threat of ground invasion, since anyone who tries invading the U.S. can have their country instantly destroyed in retaliation.
Doesn't work so well if the country invading us has nukes too and would destroy us just as quickly...
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:41 PM #63
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or has an ally with nukes
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