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Old 02-28-2013, 08:53 PM #1
MrPLOXPLOXPLOX
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AUTOCOCKER experts wanted.

Hi. I'm looking to build a nice autococker. I'm a little new to cockers but I am confident it shouldn't be too difficult a gun to master.

I just have a few questions.

If I am building a cocker, are their any compatibility problems? Such as could I build a Mech autococker, with all the internals of a 2k+ STO, or a Shocktech, or an AIM, but with the body of a Karnivor?

Will any regulator (Custom Products, Bob Long, ect ect) thread fit an autococker?

The same goes for grip frames?

Just give me some answers/info if you guys could. Thanks.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:58 PM #2
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there are some differences between bodies, some are bolt length and internal velocity adjuster threading.

yes, any regulator will work, but depending on internal springing, you may not get enough velocity, or too much.

most hinge and slider grip frames will work for any mechanical.

biggest question is budget. and what is you final goal with it?
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:10 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadmeat99 View Post
there are some differences between bodies, some are bolt length and internal velocity adjuster threading.

yes, any regulator will work, but depending on internal springing, you may not get enough velocity, or too much.

most hinge and slider grip frames will work for any mechanical.

biggest question is budget. and what is you final goal with it?

I'll second this. Though if you get a Karni body you'll need to do some adaptation to get a normal 3-way valve to work with a timing rod, etc. It can be done but it may take some machining.

As for compatability, most 'Cocker stuff comes in two categories: '99/pre-99 or 2000+. Most upgrades available are 2000+ (the Karni and MOST vertical feed bodies use all 2000+ components. The main difference between the years is in the bolt length and the valve-chamber size/front block threads. But again, most stuff you look at will fall into the 2000+ category.

The main thing you want with a cocker is to sweetspot the valvesprings with the input pressure. This will ensure that it's running as efficiently as possible and not using undue hammer-spring tension. That will mean your Lpr doesn't have to be jacked up too high and everything will run nice and smooth; and the bolt will possibly bounce off mis-fed paint (when tuned to perfection). That's it in a nutshell.

If you need tips on timing, I can help you with that. I can time and troubleshoot any 'Cocker whilst blindfolded and one arm tied behind my back...
Though there is a learning curve to them, they are sweet guns and a real pleasure to shoot. Welcome to the family!
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Old 02-28-2013, 10:32 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loneassassin View Post
I'll second this. Though if you get a Karni body you'll need to do some adaptation to get a normal 3-way valve to work with a timing rod, etc. It can be done but it may take some machining.
Not so. The Karni can take standard full body length timing rods. Since the vertical ASA is pushed up onto the front block on a Karni the timing rod tends to look like it's not supported, but will work just fine.

I really do need to take some pictures of my Mechavorr. One of my favorite cockers I've ever worked on.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:09 PM #5
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The only problem i see is that you need the karni hammer. It uses the ICS. So normal hammer + normal cocking rod won't work unless u drill the karni's backblock
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Old 03-01-2013, 03:01 AM #6
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You would be better off asking the question in the Cocker section.

Depends on what you want really.
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Old 03-01-2013, 06:02 AM #7
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For your first cocker build go simple. Get a 2K+ body for cheap and add parts to it. The 2K+ body style is the easiest to find parts for too. Building a cocker is simple, timing one properly is a different story. Even back when cockers were top of the line tournament guns it was difficult to find a decent cocker tech.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:25 AM #8
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For your first cocker build go simple. Get a 2K+ body for cheap and add parts to it. The 2K+ body style is the easiest to find parts for too. Building a cocker is simple, timing one properly is a different story. Even back when cockers were top of the line tournament guns it was difficult to find a decent cocker tech.

However, even the monkey in your avatar could time a 'Cocker if he sat down and learned how to do it. They are not that complicated. You just have to know/understand the sequence of events that need to take place.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:27 AM #9
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Not so. The Karni can take standard full body length timing rods. Since the vertical ASA is pushed up onto the front block on a Karni the timing rod tends to look like it's not supported, but will work just fine.

I really do need to take some pictures of my Mechavorr. One of my favorite cockers I've ever worked on.
I learn something every day! (Might have to start a Mechavorr project myself...). So you can use the existing Karni front block as it is (just replace the 'noid with a 3-way and bolt everything up?)
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:24 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loneassassin View Post
I learn something every day! (Might have to start a Mechavorr project myself...). So you can use the existing Karni front block as it is (just replace the 'noid with a 3-way and bolt everything up?)
Yep. I acquired most of a Karni off ebay that had the body, front block, bolt, back block, and all the lower internals, but no grip, regs, or pneumatics. Added a WGP hinge, ANS LPR, 3-way and timing rod off a stock vertical feed cocker, ram off my Trilogy, HPR off my PMR, and checkered grips off one of my old Rainmakers. And of course for me a mid length Shocktech drop for that old school full arm trigger fanning.

It will out run a revi, bounce off a chop, and turn heads all day long. Not bad for a parts box gun.
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Old 03-02-2013, 04:04 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loneassassin View Post
However, even the monkey in your avatar could time a 'Cocker if he sat down and learned how to do it. They are not that complicated. You just have to know/understand the sequence of events that need to take place.
I agree timing an autococker is not complicated as longs as you know what order you have to go in and what your looking for. It doesnt require specail tools, calling it " timing" makes it sound compicated but your really just making sure your blocks arent slapping around or ripping your cocking rod out of the back of your gun(yes ive seen this happen, dragun fly cocker, guy was a *******). They have videos on how to do it. Also 90percent of cocker parts interchange. My first legit (no walmart...) was an autocker pieced together from parts a friend had, I just had to buy a body and a barrel.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:43 AM #12
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this inspires me to build a mech karni
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:50 AM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loneassassin View Post
However, even the monkey in your avatar could time a 'Cocker if he sat down and learned how to do it. They are not that complicated. You just have to know/understand the sequence of events that need to take place.
Question is can the kids that play paintball nowadays?


I've had to fix hand-me-down cockers at local fields because the store "techs" have no idea how to. I am not saying it's terribly difficult but when something is broken or the gun is not timed properly it can be very frustrating if you don't fully understand what you are doing.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:34 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loneassassin View Post
I learn something every day! (Might have to start a Mechavorr project myself...). So you can use the existing Karni front block as it is (just replace the 'noid with a 3-way and bolt everything up?)
I agree with this sentiment! After my ongoing build is done I'll have to start a mech Karni.
My first 'Cocker build wasn't too hard, it was a blue 2k4 Superstock with a mechanical hinge frame, and it was after I'd been working on 'Cockers for a while. Just learn how the 'Cocker works and you'll be just fine!
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:57 PM #15
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Thanks for your input guys.

Ive abandoned the Karni ambition for the time being and bought a rare AIM 06 prototype cocker. I'll post it on another thread dedicated to it. I'm looking for some answers with it.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:40 AM #16
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Efficency was never a concern of mine. You check your tank guage and refil.

I play scenario and it can be a long walk to the fill station. On a RARE occasion I ran out of air. Never on a rec or tournament field.

Owning a cocker is a love hate relationship. When it is rocking, you love it. When it is acting up, you hate it and grab that old Tippman or Spyder.

Most problems are DIRT and lack of maintainence. Once timed and Blue Loctited, I don't have to worry about it. Total breakdown and cleaning twice a year with a tune up is all you need.
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