[sucka T.]

I think both of those can be goals of taxes.

[drgonzo]

Originally Posted by sucka T.

I think both of those can be goals of taxes.

Or rather, the Republican/conservative argument is that government programs amount to redistribution. There is little direct redistribution going on relative to program spending.

Given what Benji said above it's fairly clear why the Republican/conservative view is incorrect/dishonest.

[TheSilentAssassin]

Originally Posted by benji25

In my mind taxes are (or should be) designed to meet expenses, not redistribute wealth.

Progressive taxes are necessary for government to pay it's expenses in the long run because without it our economy will fail leaving no income to tax.

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

Progressive taxes are necessary due to the nature of capitalism to create vast income inequality which crumbles economies and societies alike. Without progressive taxation, our economy would inevitably fail.

[benji25]

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

Progressive taxes are necessary for government to pay it's expenses in the long run because without it our economy will fail leaving no income to tax.

I do not believe this blindly. I will have to look into it later.

[stupidmandan]

Originally Posted by sucka T.

so you make 6 figures?

I honestly feel like nobody understands how taxes work anymore. (nobody is a bit harsh, alot of people dont understand).

TI=taxable income
Example for 2013:
Your first 9k of TI is taxed at 10%
Your next 27k of TI is taxed at 15%
Your next 50k of TI is taxed at 25%
Your next 95k of TI is taxed at 28%

This is taxing your TAXABLE Income. Your TAXABLE income is NOT your gross income. Your taxable income at most is your gross wages minus (the greater of) ~6k standard deduction or itemized deduction and minus ~3800*X (where X is 1+amount of claimable dependents, so your first at least ~10k of gross income is never taxable ever.

Add in ~7% for SS and medicare (up to around 6k max? not sure about this) (but you get value from that later in life, so its not like you are losing 100% of that money), and whatever small local tax you pay.

Plus there are several other deductions and credits you probably qualify for that lower your taxable income even farther. SO unless you are making a very high salary (and single with no kids), you are most likely not paying 35% of your paycheck.

And if you are paying 35% of your paycheck a year, then consider yourself extremely lucky that you are making so much money compared to the rest of the world. Congrats, you won the ****ing lottery, you live in the United States of America, and you are in the top 1% of income earners in the world.

(And I am not saying there is no need to ***** about taxes, nor am I saying taxes are too low or high, just have some perspective)

Yes, I am paying ~35% in taxes as I make a decent amount of money, live in NYC (~3% or more additional city tax), am single with no kids, and pay a 9.5% sales tax. If I can find a paystub, I'll shoot you a PM. Thank you for the irrelevant breakdown of my tax schedule, though. As a finance/accounting grad, I found it quite insightful.

The best part is, I am by no means wealthy. I live in a fairly ****ty, small apartment with two roommates, don't own a car (can't afford it), pay about $600/month in student loans, and don't have the time or money to do a lot of things that you might imagine someone in "the 1%", as you call it, does. Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware that I won the genetic lottery, and I know that taxes aren't pointless. It's just very frustrating to not control ~35% of the money I earn and I enjoy venting on the internet. More specifically, the politics subforum of a paintball website.

[TheSilentAssassin]

Originally Posted by benji25

I do not believe this blindly. I will have to look into it later.

It's a very simple concept. Capitalistic economies tend to compile money at the top. People who are well off are more likely to have kids that end up well off. Better education, better health, better opportunities. There is no level playing field. So, their kids get a proportionally higher percentage of total wealth and then their kids after that. Eventually all the money piles at the top and we get to a point where the middle class doesn't have enough money to create the demand necessary for a functioning economy. So, we create credit system and people take on more than they can (because without it our economy will run dry), but that's ultimately a losing effort. A band aid of sorts. Eventually credit becomes unsustainable and there is not enough wealth among the middle class to sustain the demand we are used to. Demand goes down and we hit an recession.

[drgonzo]

Originally Posted by stupidmandan

Yes, I am paying ~35% in taxes as I make a decent amount of money, live in NYC (~3% or more additional city tax), am single with no kids, and pay a 9.5% sales tax. If I can find a paystub, I'll shoot you a PM. Thank you for the irrelevant breakdown of my tax schedule, though. As a finance/accounting grad, I found it quite insightful.

The best part is, I am by no means wealthy. I live in a fairly ****ty, small apartment with two roommates, don't own a car (can't afford it), pay about $600/month in student loans, and don't have the time or money to do a lot of things that you might imagine someone in "the 1%", as you call it, does. Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware that I won the genetic lottery, and I know that taxes aren't pointless. It's just very frustrating to not control ~35% of the money I earn and I enjoy venting on the internet. More specifically, the politics subforum of a paintball website.

So you are factoring in sales tax? How are you factoring it in? It's certainly nowhere near 9.5% of your income, and unless you are severely mismanaging your money, being in the top 5% of earners, even in new york city, will not put you in the situation you describe. And of course, the amount you pay in sales tax is controllable by you.

[sucka T.]

Originally Posted by stupidmandan

Yes, I am paying ~35% in taxes as I make a decent amount of money, live in NYC (~3% or more additional city tax), am single with no kids, and pay a 9.5% sales tax. If I can find a paystub, I'll shoot you a PM. Thank you for the irrelevant breakdown of my tax schedule, though. As a finance/accounting grad, I found it quite insightful.

The best part is, I am by no means wealthy. I live in a fairly ****ty, small apartment with two roommates, don't own a car (can't afford it), pay about $600/month in student loans, and don't have the time or money to do a lot of things that you might imagine someone in "the 1%", as you call it, does. Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware that I won the genetic lottery, and I know that taxes aren't pointless. It's just very frustrating to not control ~35% of the money I earn and I enjoy venting on the internet. More specifically, the politics subforum of a paintball website.

Good job making me feel like a dick.

[stupidmandan]

Originally Posted by drgonzo

So you are factoring in sales tax? How are you factoring it in? It's certainly nowhere near 9.5% of your income, and unless you are severely mismanaging your money, being in the top 5% of earners, even in new york city, will not put you in the situation you describe. And of course, the amount you pay in sales tax is controllable by you.

I'm not factoring in sales tax, I just consider it a bonus on top of everything else that I already get to pay. The ~35% of my income is taken from my paycheck, I just thought I'd mention sales tax as well. Obviously it's not 9.5% of my income, I'm not an idiot.

Have you lived in Manhattan? Do you have any idea of rent costs here? Not only that, literally everything is more expensive here. And don't feed me the line "You can move to Brooklyn for almost 1/2 the cost". I need to be within walking distance of my office in case I'm called into work and the additional ~2hrs/day of transit time simply isn't manageable when I already work twice the hours of most people. Thanks for implying that I might be mismanaging my money though.

Interesting read if you have the time:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/20/re...anted=all&_r=0

Originally Posted by sucka T.

Good job making me feel like a dick.

Haha sorry. Just trying to get my point across without being TOO argumentative.

[benji25]

Originally Posted by stupidmandan

I'm not factoring in sales tax, I just consider it a bonus on top of everything else that I already get to pay. The ~35% of my income is taken from my paycheck, I just thought I'd mention sales tax as well. Obviously it's not 9.5% of my income, I'm not an idiot.

Have you lived in Manhattan? Do you have any idea of rent costs here? Not only that, literally everything is more expensive here. And don't feed me the line "You can move to Brooklyn for almost 1/2 the cost". I need to be within walking distance of my office in case I'm called into work and the additional ~2hrs/day of transit time simply isn't manageable when I already work twice the hours of most people. Thanks for implying that I might be mismanaging my money though.

Interesting read if you have the time:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/20/re...anted=all&_r=0

Haha sorry. Just trying to get my point across without being TOO argumentative.

You realize you can move to any other city on the planet right? You may have to get a new job but no one is making you stay in NYC

[barrel roll]

Wish I won the genetic ****ing lottery.

[licence2kill]

Originally Posted by stupidmandan

Have you lived in Manhattan? Do you have any idea of rent costs here?

Manhattan real estate is pricey because demand is high while supply remain constrained. Don't see what that has to do with taxation.

[AlphaNeo36]

Originally Posted by barrel roll

Wish I won the genetic ****ing lottery.

You're living in the USA. You won a rather large side pot.

[sucka T.]

Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36

You're living in the USA. You won a rather large side pot.

I feel like i won the lottery like 8 times.

1. Born human as opposed to an abused dog.
2. Live in the USA
3. Am white
4. Am male
5. Above average height
6. Middle class childhood, never lived in poverty.
7. Live during great times (technology, medicine)
8. Clean water and never hungry.

Life could hardly get better for me.

[Snake13]

Originally Posted by stupidmandan

I'm not factoring in sales tax, I just consider it a bonus on top of everything else that I already get to pay. The ~35% of my income is taken from my paycheck, I just thought I'd mention sales tax as well. Obviously it's not 9.5% of my income, I'm not an idiot.

Have you lived in Manhattan? Do you have any idea of rent costs here? Not only that, literally everything is more expensive here. And don't feed me the line "You can move to Brooklyn for almost 1/2 the cost". I need to be within walking distance of my office in case I'm called into work and the additional ~2hrs/day of transit time simply isn't manageable when I already work twice the hours of most people. Thanks for implying that I might be mismanaging my money though.

You're living on a smallish island that has possibly the highest cost of living in the entire ****ing world, while paying off what sounds like giant student loan debt. I don't really think your lack of walking around money is because of the tax system.

[drgonzo]

Originally Posted by stupidmandan

I'm not factoring in sales tax, I just consider it a bonus on top of everything else that I already get to pay. The ~35% of my income is taken from my paycheck, I just thought I'd mention sales tax as well.

If you are in the top 5% income percentile (above about $160k), even living in Manhattan, you likely have more in disposable income than the entire average middle class income in the US. And yes, I am intimately familiar with high costs of living.

So cry us a ****ing river about having to pay more taxes because you make more than 95% of the nation. Manhattan is at the very very top of the scale, so it really doesn't make the case for anything else.