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Old 11-17-2014, 10:46 PM #1
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BPS cap. How do rec ballers feel?

After moving to a new state and out of a paintball league, I find it odd that there isn't a BPS cap at this field. I (as other speedballers do) cap my marker at 12.5 But some guys set their markers to Full auto at 15+BPS (probably 20, but im being generous) and don't want to lower it.

How do rec ballers feel about a field not having a bps cap?
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Old 11-17-2014, 11:14 PM #2
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I could care less, if they cant hit me with 12bps they wont do much better at 20bps. I play pump and I love making people waste so much paint trying to hit me.
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Old 11-17-2014, 11:19 PM #3
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I think it all depends on what type of people are playing. If its all experienced players and they all agree they want to play at 15bps then have at it. If its a field that gets a lot of rental players then I agree with keeping the bps down. 15bps doesn't belong on a field with rentals/younger kids IMO.
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Old 11-18-2014, 01:41 AM #4
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I could care less,...
Agreed.
I really don't care either. The variety makes the game more interesting. I can set my board to shoot anywhere from 8 to 25+ in any mode, but I keep it at 12.5 PSP ramp, I don't bother changing it between different types of games when I have better things to do.
And, when I feel like it, I just bring a 98C (RT, Halo Too, 68/45) or a completely stock TiPX on the field, no matter what the opponents have.
The POF does matter a lot, but it's the least satisfying factor in the majority of games I play.
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Old 11-18-2014, 02:29 AM #5
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my field wont let public groups go over 12.5
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Old 11-18-2014, 08:34 AM #6
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I am in a couple minds, as an experienced player 15+bps wont deter me from trying to eliminate you, even if I am playing pump. If everyone doesn't mind the extra paint flying around then go for it. Hell the field will love the extra paint being purchased.

However it is the newer generation of players I worry about, I try and listen to what they say to each other and get the feel of the game. Many of them would rather play against an experienced player with a pump that will bum rush them at the beginning of the game rather than that "kid with the full auto." It doesn't matter how good you are or how effectively you can throw that paint, high volumes of paint in the air intimidates the younger and newer players.

So with that being said, it is situational. You get a group of players that want to dump paint at each other then go for it. If you get a group of players that don't like the paint in the air, then the experienced players can use this as an excuse to challenge themselves with a different play style than what they are use to. Change up your play style and become more proficient in a different skill other than pointing your marker.
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Old 11-18-2014, 08:55 AM #7
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Semi-auto is really the only option to use at just about all the fields in IL for open play. Some do allow up to about 12-13 bps, but that is mostly use for Advanced Open Player games.
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:15 AM #8
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I depends. If we are talking about walk on parties of people who don't have their own equipment, then "hopper ball" (no electronic hoppers) is a good rule of thumb. If your dealing with weekend warriors and tourney players who are out for fun---no BPS cap period.
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Old 11-18-2014, 11:04 AM #9
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Quote:
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"hopper ball" (no electronic hoppers)
Just curious: where are you from that "hopper ball" means no e-loaders? I'm not picking on you at all, just fascinated that perhaps regionally there are different definitions.

In my experience, "hopper ball" has always been defined as players going on the field with just the paint in their hoppers (i.e. no pod packs).
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Old 11-18-2014, 11:28 AM #10
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Just curious: where are you from that "hopper ball" means no e-loaders? I'm not picking on you at all, just fascinated that perhaps regionally there are different definitions.

In my experience, "hopper ball" has always been defined as players going on the field with just the paint in their hoppers (i.e. no pod packs).
Interesting. I've seen this in a few places of the southwest region of the US. I could see why this confusion would exist.

Now If I was a field owner, I wouldn't want to stop anyone from shooting as much paint as they want ($$$), so I wouldn't object to people bringing pod packs, but I wouldn't want people nailing newbs at 15+ bps either...mandating non electronic hoppers effectively ensures that.

...But I DO believe there is a legitimate place for aggressive high BPS play (especially amongst weekend warriors, tourney players, and people who want to move up to more advanced and aggressive playing styles), and that high BPS play is a unique and interesting style of play that provides its own sets of strategic challenges and achievements...and no, getting "lit up" really isn't that bad, even at close range...go to a simunitions feild and you'll never complain about paintball again!
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Old 11-18-2014, 02:42 PM #11
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Definitely have a bps cap with rentals. In fact, use a mechical marker. Just because someone can light up a bunch of renters doesn't mean they should. I think less of people who try to go heavy on renters.
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Old 11-18-2014, 03:06 PM #12
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I never paid much mind to those shooting as fast they could years back when that was the norm. Now? Still don't care. It's still about movement and shooting. In other words, I haven't noticed much. I don't shoot above 12 even with an electro, so the cap doesn't concern me.
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Old 11-18-2014, 04:25 PM #13
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All the rec fields where I live are supposed to be semi only, no bps cap. It doesn't stop players from putting their markers on ramp or auto, but they can be sat out for it if the ref finds it. This is just for the safety of all the players as there are a lot of players that ramp who do not have the control needed to handle ramp and avoid overshooting and hurting someone.

Personally, I don't care as most of them sit there and just waste paint, but when there are newer and younger players, it is a concern, not only for safety, but also to keep the new players coming back and playing.
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:38 PM #14
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Interesting Replies. I've just gotten accustomed to playing by league rules, even during weekends. I guess i forgot about not having caps
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Old 11-18-2014, 10:42 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PBBlastah View Post
...But I DO believe there is a legitimate place for aggressive high BPS play (especially amongst weekend warriors, tourney players, and people who want to move up to more advanced and aggressive playing styles), and that high BPS play is a unique and interesting style of play that provides its own sets of strategic challenges and achievements...
I agree, but it's very important to distinguish the "high intensity" days from the "lower intensity" days. A few of the local fields do this very well. One woods field is normally a 12bps capped semi auto (and no, they don't consider ramping the same as semi, so take it off PSP), but on special once a month "Jungle Rumble" days they allow ramping and full auto (or just really bouncy semi triggers) up to 15bps.

A few other fields will tell you that "Normal" open play is on Saturday, and "Advanced" is on Sunday, and have different rules and game organizing systems for each day.

This way a player can know what to expect.
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Old 11-18-2014, 11:45 PM #16
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meh, 15 seems like small potatoes for "advanced" days. I can walk the trigger up to 17. For "advanced" days IMO it should be 300 FPS, totally uncapped. and you shouldn't have to wait once a month for this "privledge". An "advanced' playing style should be a matter of preference that, given enough people, is available to engage in every weekend just like any other type of game.
The bolded part is the important part. You want a "Uber XXXXTREME no holds barred" game, but you need enough other people to also want it. The field needs to balance that with what everyone else wants. You make it too extreme and mature adult players can be like "yeah, I got a job interview on Monday and I don't need a half dozen bloody neck welts from some guy who enjoys bunkering people at 18 bps, so no thanks I'll just stay home". If you can find enough like minded local players I bet you can convince the local field to have a game of whatever intensity you want. But if all you can find are 3 guys who want to go that crazy, well that may be a sign.
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Old 11-19-2014, 12:06 AM #17
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The bolded part is the important part. You want a "Uber XXXXTREME no holds barred" game, but you need enough other people to also want it. The field needs to balance that with what everyone else wants. You make it too extreme and mature adult players can be like "yeah, I got a job interview on Monday and I don't need a half dozen bloody neck welts from some guy who enjoys bunkering people at 18 bps, so no thanks I'll just stay home". If you can find enough like minded local players I bet you can convince the local field to have a game of whatever intensity you want. But if all you can find are 3 guys who want to go that crazy, well that may be a sign.
...Are you saying that bunkering at 15 bps, on the other hand, is infinitely more reasonable, and won't produce bloody welts? I think this is a false dichotomy. I never brought up bunkering, (and I agree for rentals and newbs bunkering should not be allowed) but bunkering someone is going to get you bloody neck welts if your playing with anything more powerful than a splatmaster, no matter what the BPS, even if you turned the FPS down to 265. I'm not asking for anything unreasonable, or even novel or new, so please don't paint it as such--it is a playing style that has been around for many years...I'm only requesting that it be allowed to continue as it has always been...
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Old 11-19-2014, 12:41 AM #18
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Quote:
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I'm not asking for anything unreasonable,
Reasonableness is subjective. What you might think isn't unreasonable may seem quite unreasonable to someone else. It's the fields job to find the balance. And balance means that someone may have to allow things that seem a bit too extreme in their opinion, and someone else may not be able to go as extreme as they want to. And ideally a setup with multiple balance points to cover the largest spread of potential participants.

A quick ride down the old slippery slope. Hypothetically a group of local players manage to organize a uncapped full auto game (so whatever the hopper will feed, so lets just say mid to high 20's per second on average for a collection of pretty good guns, and yes I know of some what will go higher), with point blank bunkering, no overshooting limits, full face protection optional, and chrono limits being merely a suggestion. Oh yeah, "mercy rules" so you only have to call out when you can't take the pain anymore.

To any sane person, that's completely unreasonable. I'd most certainly never go near any game like that. But I've been around long enough to have met more than one group of outlaw ballers who desire that exact game. Should fields allow that level of play just because someone wants it?
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:30 AM #19
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I still find it hard to believe that this is such a debate. If you want to play uncapped, find people that want to do the same and don't interfere with those who want to have fun and play a different way. If you can't find those people, then suck it up and play paintball like the rest of the people you are with.

People also have to respect the fields rules as they are actually set for a reason for player safety/fun and insurance reasons. Just because you want to play at 20+bps and the field only allows 12.5bps does not give you the right to have the option for anything higher than 12.5bps. The rules are set in place for player safety, player enjoyment, staff safety, equipment longevity and limits applied to the fields by outside sources.

The other thing about paintball needing to change has one and only one real solution. No it is not ending it, or regulating it to hell, it is done by every individual in the sport. It is to show some respect to other players, staff, event planners, vendors, suppliers and every other individual that is deserving of respect.

Now lets take the situation:
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"Liittle-Johhny-got-an-owie-from-Mr. Ion McFast Fingers-and-since-Little-Johnny-isn't-having-fun-no-one-else-can-have-fun-to-make-it-fair-because-rich-soccer-mom-money-is-too-easy-to-pass-up-even-though-paintball-has-always-been-an-extreme-sport-for-responsible-working-grown-ups-not-laser-tag-for-rich-kids"
"Liittle Johhny" is not having fun yes, but is that his fault, the fields fault or "Ion McFast Fingers" fault?

It is not Johhnys fault because he is in a public field to have fun in a sport that is meant to have fun. He does not know that other players will be pounding him with more paint than he ever thought would come out of a marker. He is in a sport that has at this field been marketed as a family sport where everyone can go to have fun. He also is also counting on other players to be close to the same skill level as himself and not take advantage of him if they are more skilled.

It is not the fields fault as the field cannot hold every players hand and show them what field they belong to. They are not responsible for separating the skill levels from each other or making sure no one is going to join the less able players just so they have easy targets.

That leaves Ion McFast Fingers, His/her friends and those of the same skill level who was on the same field when this incident happened. These players are experienced enough to be able to determine who is on the same skill level as them and play at a lower skill level or use different equipment to balance the game more. McFast Fingers has the choice to stay with the experienced players so they can play at whatever the height of their skill level is. But instead McFast Fingers knowingly chooses to join a game of players with less skill and experience than themselves. Then this player knowingly and willingly does not bring themselves down a couple notches to match the players on the field.

This again boils down to respect for those around us. And don't tell me that one can't take their game down several notches, I do it all the time. Use your off hand, play with only one finger on semi, play pump do something that challenges you.
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:42 AM #20
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any legit field for safety and insurance reasons will probably have the cap of 12.5 or lower.
i am playing in a 2 man tourney in december that will be uncapped semi. it is a skill i think all paintball players need to learn. as psp and ramping have made them lazy when it comes to walking the trigger. i personally was around before all this ramping and stuff happened so the psp and that is actually slowing me down in my rate of fire.
i personally cap all my guns on semi auto capped at 11 when i am playing rec. when it is team practice they change to psp 12 bps.
capping the rate of fire isn't for paint consumption in rec groups it is for safety.
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:53 AM #21
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is blasting a 12 year old who has never played before with a hopper full of paint really that fun?
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