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Old 02-03-2013, 01:18 AM #1765
BodyCount81
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Originally Posted by Umami View Post
When people are dying in large numbers because of a problem it is inevitable to bring up their deaths as a call for some kind of change. In fact, it is unquestionably irresponsible to ignore as the gun lobby tends to. If a lot of people weren't dying, nobody would care.
You're right, there is a problem. But the problem isn't going to be solved with banning 30 round mags and "high powered ar15 assault rifles". Nor will the problem be close to being solved. Example: Columbine.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:22 AM #1766
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When people are dying in large numbers because of a problem it is inevitable to bring up their deaths as a call for some kind of change...If a lot of people weren't dying, nobody would care.
The hyperbole in this is laughable. Are you also going to ban fatty foods to stop heart disease? Ban smoking? The partyline echochamber is just blaring in here.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:26 AM #1767
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They won't allow them because those who push for "research" are only building up fluff to support the disarmament of people. You can ***** about guns all you want, but the fact remains that it's clearly stated in the Constitution that we have a right to keep and bear arms, and that that right shall not be infringed. If you don't like it I suggest leaving the country, learning to cope with it, or killing yourself.
Holy ****, dude..

I'm becoming more and more in favor of further gun control measures just because of the lunacy of the most vocal pro gun people. You people are ****ed in the head.

Also, I never hear any of you guys demanding that tanks, black hawks, armed drones, rpgs, nuclear war heads, chemical weapons, and c4 be made legal due to being unconstitutional. These are all arms, and all illegal for US citizens to posses. Would you feel safer with these things made legal? Do you not think that such a thing as reasonable arms control exists? Should there be any limit at all on what weapons a citizen can own/operate?

I've shot .223 and .308 assault rifles with friends of mine, and they are a lot of fun. I would personally prefer they not be made illegal, but I also understand that the potential risk likely outweighs the primal joy of blowing **** apart with military style weaponry. As for personal protection, unless you're of the same ilk as the stars of Doomsday Preppers and are preparing for Obama to send the troops into your home to kill your kittens (The obvious underlying reason for ending the wars), then a pistol, shotgun, or hunting rifle should do just fine. Again though, I'm only saying I understand the rational for the AWB, I do not support it. But I am also not outraged or feel like my freedom is being taken away.

So calm the **** down, Nancy. Liberals don't have an inner compulsion to take away anybody else's guns, blenders, or Cheerios just for the hell of it. If you think our stance is misguided or ill informed, then I would think you would welcome a push for more conclusive research on the matter.

And the "Love it or leave it, or kill yourself" **** doesn't help you shed the ignorant hill billy stigma that gun nuts are so often painted as. In fact, judging from the demeanor of the pro gun posters on here, as well as the Ted Nugent quoting and meme/chainmail happy posters on my Facebook news feed, I'd say the stigma may just be accurate after all.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:27 AM #1768
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Originally Posted by BodyCount81 View Post
You're right, there is a problem. But the problem isn't going to be solved with banning 30 round mags and "high powered ar15 assault rifles". Nor will the problem be close to being solved. Example: Columbine.
Solving is not the goal. Reduction is.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:40 AM #1769
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So calm the **** down, Nancy. Liberals don't have an inner compulsion to take away anybody else's guns, blenders, or Cheerios just for the hell of it. If you think our stance is misguided or ill informed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Senator Feinstein 1995, 60 Minutes
"If I could've gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them -- Mr. and Mrs. America turn 'em all in -- I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."
The liberal dogma is the government interdiction into the market for the 'betterment' of society. Not like these points and counterpoints haven't already been posted or anything; repetition makes it so much more true, right?
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:44 AM #1770
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The liberal dogma is the government interdiction into the market for the 'betterment' of society. Not like these points and counterpoints haven't already been posted or anything; repetition makes it so much more true, right?
I stand by my statement, the way I wrote it.
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:01 AM #1771
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Old 02-03-2013, 07:08 AM #1772
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This is what happens when you take your foot off the government's throat for a second.
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:09 AM #1773
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Originally Posted by Umami View Post

When people are dying in large numbers because of a problem it is inevitable to bring up their deaths as a call for some kind of change. In fact, it is unquestionably irresponsible to ignore as the gun lobby tends to. If a lot of people weren't dying, nobody would care.

Beyond that I don't think I need to respond to this. You sound crazy enough yelling at your straw man without needing to point it out.
Ppl die in much larger numbers due to dUI/DWI accidents but your not pushing to ban alcohol or take away all cars. Also more ppl were killed last year with a hammer over an assault rifle so does that mean hammers should be banned before assault rifles.
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:37 AM #1774
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Originally Posted by PaulE2Cocker View Post
Ppl die in much larger numbers due to dUI/DWI accidents but your not pushing to ban alcohol or take away all cars. Also more ppl were killed last year with a hammer over an assault rifle so does that mean hammers should be banned before assault rifles.
I understand that assault weapons are not responsible for most firearms deaths. But we do have strict rules on alcohol consumption, and when we give police departments money and leadership to enforce DWI related incidents, alcohol related deaths decrease. On a side note, when self driving cars become available - shortly - they will replace human drivers for exactly that reason (and a few more).

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But for the record, I don't think the AWB in its current form is going to do anything either.
Quote:
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Perhaps you should tell the NRA to allow research into firearm incidents so you can argue your position better than from a crappy website with links to articles some random guy collected on the internet - many of which have nothing to do with specific incidents. It would also help legislators formulate sensible laws, similar to the "millions of tests" you say have been conducted with vehicle safety.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/us/26guns.html?_r=0
The NRA pushes for intentional ignorance, a position I will never support. And perhaps it is one of the reasons you see such horrible legislation as the AWB. People don't know what is going to do anything, so they try to ban the stuff that scares them.

Totally ignoring the problems with firearms in this country - and they do exist - is not going to help your position. The number of gun owners is trending down over the long term even if gun purchases bubble up every now and again. After enough violence and enough deaths, non-gun owners will turn more and more against the gun lobby. If people get sick enough of gun violence, the 2nd amendment might even be amended, and frankly I don't want to see it come to that.

The NRA does the cause of gun ownership harm in the long run by not proposing real solutions to these problems and pretending they don't exist or that they're not an issue worth addressing.
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:23 AM #1775
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Originally Posted by PaulE2Cocker View Post
Ppl die in much larger numbers due to dUI/DWI accidents but your not pushing to ban alcohol or take away all cars. Also more ppl were killed last year with a hammer over an assault rifle so does that mean hammers should be banned before assault rifles.
I can almost guarantee that hammer kills per hammer are much lower than gun kills per gun. I have heard that nonsense "but ___ kills stuff more than guns" far too much around here. Either you are incredibly dense or you are actively trying to deceive. Either way, it's ****ty.
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:53 AM #1776
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Why should it matter if guns kill more than hammers?
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:54 AM #1777
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calm the **** down, Nancy. Liberals don't have an inner compulsion to take away anybody else's guns, blenders, or Cheerios just for the hell of it. If you think our stance is misguided or ill informed, then I would think you would welcome a push for more conclusive research on the matter.
Uhh yes they do. See below.
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Solving is not the goal. Reduction is.
This wouldn't solve anything or reduce anything enough to make it worth while. Example: Columbine
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Originally Posted by mnp8nt View Post
The liberal dogma is the government interdiction into the market for the 'betterment' of society. Not like these points and counterpoints haven't already been posted or anything; repetition makes it so much more true, right?
.
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Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
I can almost guarantee that hammer kills per hammer are much lower than gun kills per gun. I have heard that nonsense "but ___ kills stuff more than guns" far too much around here. Either you are incredibly dense or you are actively trying to deceive. Either way, it's ****ty.
Do you want to know why you keep hearing it? because the number of people killed with "assault rifles" is very small. Yet they're trying to ban them simply because kids were killed. Not to mention it's still unclear whether he used an "assault rifle" or the handguns.
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:12 AM #1778
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>thinks of me as crazy because I hate those who oppose my rights both Constitutionally-granted and natural
>proposes to infringe upon my rights


Seventy-five years ago you'd probably be arguing that "negros" have no rights because they weren't specifically listed in the Constitution as being people.
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:29 AM #1779
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I understand that assault weapons are not responsible for most firearms deaths. But we do have strict rules on alcohol consumption, and when we give police departments money and leadership to enforce DWI related incidents, alcohol related deaths decrease. On a side note, when self driving cars become available - shortly - they will replace human drivers for exactly that reason (and a few more).
In other words, we have strict rules on human behavior, not inanimate objects
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:21 PM #1780
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Originally Posted by spracks21 View Post

So calm the **** down, Nancy. Liberals don't have an inner compulsion to take away anybody else's guns, blenders, or Cheerios just for the hell of it. If you think our stance is misguided or ill informed, then I would think you would welcome a push for more conclusive research on the matter.
Please then pass this message to that retard Bloomberg in NY over the soda ban.
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:29 PM #1781
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In other words, we have strict rules on human behavior, not inanimate objects
Here's a proposal: A gun license requires firearms training to obtain.
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:39 PM #1782
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Here's a proposal: A gun license requires firearms training to obtain.
Sure, right after you require a license and training to vote, write in a paper, and express your religious beliefs.
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:49 PM #1783
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Training to vote wouldn't be a bad thing, a simple political science test perhaps. Training to speak proper English for the use of the first amendment wouldn't hurt either.
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:51 PM #1784
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Sure, right after you require a license and training to vote, write in a paper, and express your religious beliefs.
So you first say we restrict human behavior, then when I suggest modifying human behavior you go all red herring on me. Ridiculous.

How about:

-increasing federal aid to poverty stricken areas
-increasing federal funding to after school programs
-ending the war on drugs
-providing free gun locks with the purchase of a firearm
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:51 PM #1785
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Training to vote wouldn't be a bad thing, a simple political science test perhaps. Training to speak proper English for the use of the first amendment wouldn't hurt either.
Applying for permission from the government would be.

The Constitution does not exist to restrict people. It exists to restrict the government.
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