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Old 01-16-2013, 05:34 PM #883
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Originally Posted by kapp_badbloodz View Post
I don't think it is possible (yet) to make a complete 3D copy of a gun. An AR15 has a chamber pressure of 52,000 psi. I wouldn't want to be the one volunteering to test this one...
i TRIPLE DOG dare you...
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:37 PM #884
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Won't guns solve the mental health issues?
if i remember correctly, taking guns off the street is the #1 cure for mental illness. This being because once it's harder to legally obtain a firearm, it is also much harder to gain a mental illness.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:23 PM #885
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if i remember correctly, taking guns off the street is the #1 cure for mental illness. This being because once it's harder to legally obtain a firearm, it is also much harder to gain a mental illness.
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Old 01-16-2013, 06:40 PM #886
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Originally Posted by jamest91 View Post
if i remember correctly, taking guns off the street is the #1 cure for mental illness. This being because once it's harder to legally obtain a firearm, it is also much harder to gain a mental illness.
yeah this....

honeslty though the liberals are too scared to address mental illness because they are afraid of the ACLU
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:13 PM #887
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Won't guns solve the mental health issues?
Though I likely won't have much time to expand much or reply to other posts, I have to point out the misconstrued argument that mental health is what needs to be cured in order to stop killings in this country (I know you're not saying this, but you brought up the mental health thing, which reminded me to post this).

I keep hearing people saying that we need to address mental health issues, as it's the cause for such devastating attacks. While it's appropriate to lay blame on the mental health of people, it is not appropriate to rely on the fixing of mental health issues to cure this problem. Psychiatrists and psychologists all admit that it is pretty much impossible to determine whether or not somebody is going to act out on a murdering tendencies or anything of the like. We know pretty much next to nothing about the human brain and how physical qualities of it interact with the inner-workings of the mind.

Those people asking that we spend more time and research in to these understandings have no idea if it's even possible to cure mental health issues, let alone discover any causal links in any scientific realm of understanding them. It would be much more appropriate to make owning a firearm a little more restrictive and difficult to obtain, requiring background checks for all purchases and maybe even limiting some types of guns (this isn't saying I agree with the limitations proposed. Pistol grips on shotguns makes shotguns worse? LOL) to make any effect.

The ability of a psychiatrist or psychologist to foresee any dangerous acts in their patients in next to impossible and there's no evidence to show that this would change any time in the near future.

Just wanted to get that out with the hopes of sparking a bit more conversation about looking for ways to help these situations. Like I said, I won't be able to reply for a while, but maybe a few others can have a go.
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Last edited by Treghc : 01-16-2013 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:45 PM #888
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Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
Though I likely won't have much time to expand much or reply to other posts, I have to point out the misconstrued argument that mental health is what needs to be cured in order to stop killings in this country (I know you're not saying this, but you brought up the mental health thing, which reminded me to post this).

I keep hearing people saying that we need to address mental health issues, as it's the cause for such devastating attacks. While it's appropriate to lay blame on the mental health of people, it is not appropriate to rely on the fixing of mental health issues to cure this problem. Psychiatrists and psychologists all admit that it is pretty much impossible to determine whether or not somebody is going to act out on a murdering tendencies or anything of the like. We know pretty much next to nothing about the human brain and how physical qualities of it interact with the inner-workings of the mind.

Those people asking that we spend more time and research in to these understandings have no idea if it's even possible to cure mental health issues, let alone discover any causal links in any scientific realm of understanding them. It would be much more appropriate to make owning a firearm a little more restrictive and difficult to obtain, requiring background checks for all purchases and maybe even limiting some types of guns (this isn't saying I agree with the limitations proposed. Pistol grips on shotguns makes shotguns worse? LOL) to make any effect.

The ability of a psychiatrist or psychologist to foresee any dangerous acts in their patients in next to impossible and there's no evidence to show that this would change any time in the near future.

Just wanted to get that out with the hopes of sparking a bit more conversation about looking for ways to help these situations. Like I said, I won't be able to reply for a while, but maybe a few others can have a go.
So I really dont want to read an essay right now lol
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:49 PM #889
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tl;dr -

Putting blame on lack of mental health issues does nothing. It's next to impossible for any person (qualified professional or not) to predict whether a mentally unstable person will kill another human being or not. Lastly, there is no evidence to show and thus no reason to believe any great leap in understandings of the brain or mind will lend us further help in deterring the mentally unstable from acting out.
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Old 01-16-2013, 07:59 PM #890
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Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
tl;dr -

Putting blame on lack of mental health issues does nothing. It's next to impossible for any person (qualified professional or not) to predict whether a mentally unstable person will kill another human being or not. Lastly, there is no evidence to show and thus no reason to believe any great leap in understandings of the brain or mind will lend us further help in deterring the mentally unstable from acting out.
Thank you for summing that up for us in under 50 lines.

If I recall, at least with a couple recent shootings, haven't we normally found out after the events that numerous people who commit these acts do in fact try and seek help, but are often denied or rejected? I know that happened at least with the Virginia Tech shooter.

I think it is more of an issue of simply brushing things aside instead of attempting to cure certain people. But that is always the case in American society.

Doing absolutely nothing until the worst possible outcome happens, then we decide to maybe do something about it. Pearl Harbor, 9/11, numerous shootings and massacres, etc.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:23 PM #891
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Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
Though I likely won't have much time to expand much or reply to other posts, I have to point out the misconstrued argument that mental health is what needs to be cured in order to stop killings in this country (I know you're not saying this, but you brought up the mental health thing, which reminded me to post this).

I keep hearing people saying that we need to address mental health issues, as it's the cause for such devastating attacks. While it's appropriate to lay blame on the mental health of people, it is not appropriate to rely on the fixing of mental health issues to cure this problem. Psychiatrists and psychologists all admit that it is pretty much impossible to determine whether or not somebody is going to act out on a murdering tendencies or anything of the like. We know pretty much next to nothing about the human brain and how physical qualities of it interact with the inner-workings of the mind.

Those people asking that we spend more time and research in to these understandings have no idea if it's even possible to cure mental health issues, let alone discover any causal links in any scientific realm of understanding them. It would be much more appropriate to make owning a firearm a little more restrictive and difficult to obtain, requiring background checks for all purchases and maybe even limiting some types of guns (this isn't saying I agree with the limitations proposed. Pistol grips on shotguns makes shotguns worse? LOL) to make any effect.

The ability of a psychiatrist or psychologist to foresee any dangerous acts in their patients in next to impossible and there's no evidence to show that this would change any time in the near future.

Just wanted to get that out with the hopes of sparking a bit more conversation about looking for ways to help these situations. Like I said, I won't be able to reply for a while, but maybe a few others can have a go.
I was talking about cracking skulls, but yeah. I don't really have much to add since I pretty much agree with most of this.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:35 PM #892
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Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
tl;dr -

Putting blame on lack of mental health issues does nothing. It's next to impossible for any person (qualified professional or not) to predict whether a mentally unstable person will kill another human being or not. Lastly, there is no evidence to show and thus no reason to believe any great leap in understandings of the brain or mind will lend us further help in deterring the mentally unstable from acting out.
Are you suggesting that mental health should not be a screening criteria for authorized gun sales?
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:07 PM #893
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Originally Posted by jamest91 View Post
Thank you for summing that up for us in under 50 lines.

If I recall, at least with a couple recent shootings, haven't we normally found out after the events that numerous people who commit these acts do in fact try and seek help, but are often denied or rejected? I know that happened at least with the Virginia Tech shooter.

I think it is more of an issue of simply brushing things aside instead of attempting to cure certain people. But that is always the case in American society.

Doing absolutely nothing until the worst possible outcome happens, then we decide to maybe do something about it. Pearl Harbor, 9/11, numerous shootings and massacres, etc.
Even if the Virginia Tech shooter received help, that does not mean anyone would have known he would have done what he did.

There really is nothing to brush aside. Trying to enact some superficial belief that mental health issues are resolved on the regular (or even resolved at all) does nothing for anyone.

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Are you suggesting that mental health should not be a screening criteria for authorized gun sales?
No. I am not at all. But a statement such as yours brings up the question: What is the tipping point to consider someone not mentally healthy? The whole context of understanding of the mind is purely grey matter (I'm so punny); there is no black and white.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:22 PM #894
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I'd feel much better knowing myself and my fellow bar patrons were armed when an off duty police officer, trained in the use and safety of firearms, decides to execute a man over a game of darts.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:27 PM #895
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I know someone who was searched/expelled for people "suspecting" him of going to commit a school shooting, spent several weeks in a psychiatric hospital due to suicide threats and other violent actions, currently diagnosed bi-polar and few more things I can't remember.


He can walk into a gun shop right now and buy a firearm.


His psychiatrists actual suggestions? Take several medications and suggested "hunting" as a nice hobby for him to pick up.


When you ask him, do you think you should be able to own/buy guns, his answer is yes. When you ask him if other people like him should, surprisingly he says no.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:28 PM #896
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Kiss your guns good bye. Then you can bend over and cough while we search your house. And you will comply lol
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:39 AM #897
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Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
Even if the Virginia Tech shooter received help, that does not mean anyone would have known he would have done what he did.

There really is nothing to brush aside. Trying to enact some superficial belief that mental health issues are resolved on the regular (or even resolved at all) does nothing for anyone.
my point here is many mentally ill people who first seek help or people to talk to that then get brushed aside could use violence such as that as a way of getting people's attention.

Also, a student at my college had his dorm room raided because people reported him for strange activities, bad thoughts, and the like and guess what.......

police found 5 weapons, bomb making material, and 200 rounds of ammunition in his dorm room. the final verdict on the kid was that he had been bullied at school and when he went to the university about it they simply said there wasn't much that could really be done. He also had 1 session with a psychologist.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:41 AM #898
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Did anyone see how obama used children as political fodder in his speech? Didn't surprise me at all. That's usually what tyrants do, just look at the Hitler youth.





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Old 01-17-2013, 02:51 AM #899
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:54 AM #900
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Did anyone see how obama used children as political fodder in his speech? Didn't surprise me at all. That's usually what tyrants do, just look at the Hitler youth.


What a clearly damning accusation you have made, Obama is clearly as awful as Hitler because he has kids in his photos, thank you for your insightful writings sir.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:54 AM #901
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Maybe I'm mistaken but I don't remember Ron Paul having kids around him when he signed unconstitutional legislation. In fact he never signed unconstitutional legislation in the first place. Comparing using kids in a political setting like obama did, to a nonpolitical setting like the picture of ron paul there, just shows how you like to grasp at straws.

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Old 01-17-2013, 02:55 AM #902
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That's because he never amounted to anything.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:57 AM #903
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That's because he never amounted to anything.
So you only amount to something when you successfully rip apart the constitution? I couldn't have expected a statement more traitorous from you.
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