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Old 12-27-2012, 02:15 PM #22
Tafari Makonnen
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Originally Posted by licence2kill View Post
Sure, its called "Universal Health Care"
Universal Health Care is going to eliminate/signifigantly reduce violent crime?

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That's not how we operate. Cure symptoms, not ailments.
It is almost like some people completely refuse to look at a situation with honesty...
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:16 PM #23
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It would enable mentally ill to receive treatment if recognized.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:17 PM #24
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Universal Health Care is going to eliminate/signifigantly reduce violent crime?
Not to stand up for L2K but the point he is trying to make is that Universal Health Care would provide funding for better research into diagnosing psychiatric problems and issues before they manifest into something far worse. What he doesn't know is that the people he votes for have shoved funding for the mental health industry under the stack for the last 2 years now.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:18 PM #25
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It'll pass. The Dems will offer the GOP the tax bracket at a million or so instead of 250k and the GOP will fold up and count their donations. They might make a mild negotiation and get something removed

My question is how are they going to NFA all of these firearms? It currently takes 4-8 months to get an NFA stamp and there's been less than a million transactions in the last 20 years. There are literally millions of firearms right now that would have to be NFA'd. How are they going to process that? Jesus Christ, your CLEO would be overwhelmed. It would be YEARS before you could get your stamp.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:19 PM #26
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Originally Posted by licence2kill View Post
Lower the rate of gun violence.

How? Do you realize how many firearms are already in circulation? Do you realize the types of people out committing violent acts with firearms? 9.9 times out of 10 its not going to be Me or Ted Nugent, who purchase our sh** by the books (which would be the types of owners that pay the price)

As I stated when you started in with your whole "Tax Guns" campaign in the other thread, Criminals will be criminals. Always have, Always will. And they do not purchase their guns from dealers.

Did alcohol vanish during prohibition? No. And There was a dramatic increase in organized crime.. Why would this be any different? Or should they pass more anti-organized crime laws to help prevent this?
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:19 PM #27
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It'll pass. The Dems will offer the GOP the tax bracket at a million or so instead of 250k and the GOP will fold up and count their donations. They might make a mild negotiation and get something removed

My question is how are they going to NFA all of these firearms? It currently takes 4-8 months to get an NFA stamp and there's been less than a million transactions in the last 20 years. There are literally millions of firearms right now that would have to be NFA'd. How are they going to process that? Jesus Christ, your CLEO would be overwhelmed. It would be YEARS before you could get your stamp.
Then you have people like me who are going to flat out refuse to do it in the first place... hey... we might ease up the load a little bit.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:19 PM #28
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It would enable mentally ill to receive treatment if recognized.
Oh, okay, because all violent crimes are comitted by mentally ill
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:20 PM #29
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Tafari, what causes gun violence?
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:20 PM #30
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if recognized.
That's the biggy. Do you know if this lanza fellow was unable to get treatment because of limited access?
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:21 PM #31
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Tafari, what causes gun violence?
Poverty, social issues etc... which means taking guns away from me isn't going to stop anything. Keep felons in jail where they belong, reinstate the 3 strike rule.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:22 PM #32
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It would enable mentally ill to receive treatment if recognized.
Right, and that might reduce these spree killer types from popping up, but they account for a relatively insignificant number of murders in this country and are rather infrequent. You still have all of the violent crimes unrelated to mental illness that are far more common that are not being addressed.

You seem to like using these events to promote/support your previously held beliefs...

How do you propose one actually reduces violent crime?
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:22 PM #33
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Tafari, what causes gun violence?
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Originally Posted by tmanbuckhunter View Post
Poverty, social issues etc... which means taking guns away from me isn't going to stop anything. Keep felons in jail where they belong, reinstate the 3 strike rule.
Wrong.

Criminals cause gun violence. End of discussion.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:23 PM #34
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...
How do you propose one actually reduces violent crime?
Precogs, 3 seashells, sentient computers, etc etc etc
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:24 PM #35
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Wrong.

Criminals cause gun violence. End of discussion.
Most criminals are also poor, and live in areas below the poverty line, although they venture out into areas above the poverty line to commit their crime. Yes, criminals cause gun violence, but you also have to look at what makes these criminals. One could say that it is the nanny state side of government where one can do no wrong and you are self entitled to whatever it is you want.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:25 PM #36
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Right, and that might reduce these spree killer types from popping up, but they account for a relatively insignificant number of murders in this country and are rather infrequent. You still have all of the violent crimes unrelated to mental illness that are far more common that are not being addressed.

You seem to like using these events to promote/support your previously held beliefs...

How do you propose one actually reduces violent crime?
I know they tried pretty hard to pin insanity on Breivik. Don't know if they ended up succeeding or paying someone to fudge it up so he could be declared as such.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:26 PM #37
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Precogs, 3 seashells, sentient computers, etc etc etc
greetings and salutations, fine citizen
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I hope it passes
Only because you hate guns, hate gun owners, and think only the modern white confederacy and their "stupid hobby" is what's causing all amounts of violence in this country.

Last edited by Volucris : 12-27-2012 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:28 PM #38
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Tafari, what causes gun violence?
The same thing that causes other violent behavior, a mix of economic and cultural drivers that is rather complex, and involves treading on your voter base to address. Reducing the number of children born out of wedlock, increasing the focus on education, and instilling a value system that turns children away from criminal behavior in low income communities, among other things, would help tremendously in reducing the occurance of violent crime. But this is exceedingly difficult and not as sexy as banning guns so...

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That's the biggy. Do you know if this lanza fellow was unable to get treatment because of limited access?
His family was quite wealthy and he was prescribed drugs for other issues, so that seems rather unlikely.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:29 PM #39
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Most criminals are also poor, and live in areas below the poverty line, although they venture out into areas above the poverty line to commit their crime. Yes, criminals cause gun violence, but you also have to look at what makes these criminals. One could say that it is the nanny state side of government where one can do no wrong and you are self entitled to whatever it is you want.
Yes, I know, and I understand this. But the vast majority of poor people don't commit violent crimes either. So clearly, being poor does not make you a criminal and does not cause violent crime. Criminals cause violent crime. They choose to break the law and do violence on innocent people. Gun restrictions have zero affect on that in this country. And in other countries that have the same type of immigration and poverty issues, mainly the UK, violent crime goes up.


Now, if we'd like to adjust the welfare system to pour more money in to better education and job training, instead of simply giving more money to the woman who just had her fifth kid on welfare, by all means, let's talk about it. Clinton had the right idea when he started welfare reform. But I have a feeling that most of the anti-gun legislators would lose quite a bit of their voting base if they did that.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:30 PM #40
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I know they tried pretty hard to pin insanity on Breivik. Don't know if they ended up succeeding or paying someone to fudge it up so he could be declared as such.
Well, there is the "Crazy" types that hold a ridiculous and potentially dangerous belief system, and then those with identifiable medical problems. It is almost like the situation is far more complicated than they want to pretend it is...
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:31 PM #41
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Yes, I know, and I understand this. But the vast majority of poor people don't commit violent crimes either. So clearly, being poor does not make you a criminal and does not cause violent crime. Criminals cause violent crime. They choose to break the law and do violence on innocent people. Gun restrictions have zero affect on that in this country. And in other countries that have the same type of immigration and poverty issues, mainly the UK, violent crime goes up.

I didn't say all poor people committed violent crime, I'm just saying that poor communities is usually where violent crime comes from. No, banning guns does not stop them... shooting them with legally held firearms will.
Now, if we'd like to adjust the welfare system to pour more money in to better education and job training, instead of simply giving more money to the woman who just had her fifth kid on welfare, by all means, let's talk about it. Clinton had the right idea when he started welfare reform. But I have a feeling that most of the anti-gun legislators would lose quite a bit of their voting base if they did that.
This sounds like a better idea, but as Chris said... banning guns is sexier.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:37 PM #42
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Well, there is the "Crazy" types that hold a ridiculous and potentially dangerous belief system, and then those with identifiable medical problems. It is almost like the situation is far more complicated than they want to pretend it is...
I think there are common political ideologies that are both crazy and dangerous, but I wouldn't try labeling any of the adherents clinically insane. But yeah....
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