Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-27-2012, 11:20 AM #1
_PBH_
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MA
Suicide..

When I was a child the first time I heard about someone killing themself was kurt cobain. I didn't understand why someone with so much money and fame would decide to do soemthing like that to themselves. How could someone be so unhappy to the point where they would just abandon everything and everyone in one selfish act, without even saying goodbye?
I'm 22 now and so far in my life I have personally known 4 people who have taken their life and 2 that have attempted it. One was an old friend from elementary school that I lost touch with after I moved, and found out last year he hung himself. Another was a classmate I graduated with from highschool. The one that hurt the most however was my mentor from highschool, phys ed coach, and friend Coach T who killed himself after he got caught cheating on his wife and taking heavy ammounts of Concerta. He hung himself in his crossfit gym he was running for a few years. Lastly and most recently a good friend of mine shot himself about a month ago in his house...I still havn't found out why.

The questions I had when I was a child are questions I still ask today...I think everyone at some point in their life has thought about what it would be like if they left this world, who would care about them when they were gone and how long would they remember them after they were gone. But actually going through with the act is something completely different. What has happened in our society where we see so many trending cases of people taking their own lives, yet in places like Africa and western europe and the middle east people are starving, riddled with disease and their land is corrupted by evil goverments and wars yet the suicide rate is greater here?
I just don't understand how people can justify hurting all their friends and loved ones and just quit life and leave everything behind...with every death my heart breaks a little more.
__________________
Not Not Ali Legend: I eat my own **** and masturbate to gay porn.

[̲̅$̲̅(̲̅1̲̅)̲̅$̲̅] [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅1̲̅)̲̅$̲̅l bill ya'lllllllll
_PBH_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 12-27-2012, 12:27 PM #2
TheSilentAssassin
Words and Stuff
 
TheSilentAssassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Personally, I think calling someone selfish for ending their pain is rather selfish in itself. Why would you ask someone who is in extreme pain to continue living so that their family doesn't have to be sad? That's extremely inhumane. If a person had a disease that caused incredible pain, would you expect him to not pull the plug so his family doesn't have to deal with that pain? Why do we as a society recognize the realness of physical pain but deny the realness of emotional pain?

Ultimately, I think suicide is illogical, but it surely isn't selfish.
__________________
“There are only two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don’t know it.” – G. K. Chesterton - The Mercy of Mr. Arnold Bennett, Fancies vs. Fads

Last edited by TheSilentAssassin : 12-27-2012 at 12:30 PM.
TheSilentAssassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 12:42 PM #3
_PBH_
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MA
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
Personally, I think calling someone selfish for ending their pain is rather selfish in itself. Why would you ask someone who is in extreme pain to continue living so that their family doesn't have to be sad? That's extremely inhumane. If a person had a disease that caused incredible pain, would you expect him to not pull the plug so his family doesn't have to deal with that pain? Why do we as a society recognize the realness of physical pain but deny the realness of emotional pain?

Ultimately, I think suicide is illogical, but it surely isn't selfish.
I see your point, but to disregard the emotional obligation you have to others to me is selfish. I get how when someone is experiencing extreme pain in their life it is easy to become tunnel visioned and forget about all the ones who care about you, but it doesnt make them go away. People have made large investments of time love and care in my life and for those people alone I would never quit because I know the pain they would have to experience if anything like that were to happen to me. I am a believer in euthanasia where if someone is in physical pain beyond recovery they should have the right to take their own life and I believe others should understand and respect that. But if you commit suicide because youre going through a rough time and can't remember all the ones who care about you then you are a quitter and overall very selfish.
__________________
Not Not Ali Legend: I eat my own **** and masturbate to gay porn.

[̲̅$̲̅(̲̅1̲̅)̲̅$̲̅] [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅1̲̅)̲̅$̲̅l bill ya'lllllllll
_PBH_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 12:47 PM #4
TheSilentAssassin
Words and Stuff
 
TheSilentAssassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by _PBH_ View Post
I see your point, but to disregard the emotional obligation you have to others to me is selfish. I get how when someone is experiencing extreme pain in their life it is easy to become tunnel visioned and forget about all the ones who care about you, but it doesnt make them go away. People have made large investments of time love and care in my life and for those people alone I would never quit because I know the pain they would have to experience if anything like that were to happen to me. I am a believer in euthanasia where if someone is in physical pain beyond recovery they should have the right to take their own life and I believe others should understand and respect that. But if you commit suicide because youre going through a rough time and can't remember all the ones who care about you then you are a quitter and overall very selfish.
Explain to my why emotional pain should just be taken in stride while physical pain can be opted out of. I see no logical reason to treat emotional pain any differently than physical.
__________________
“There are only two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don’t know it.” – G. K. Chesterton - The Mercy of Mr. Arnold Bennett, Fancies vs. Fads
TheSilentAssassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 01:12 PM #5
_PBH_
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MA
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
Explain to my why emotional pain should just be taken in stride while physical pain can be opted out of. I see no logical reason to treat emotional pain any differently than physical.
I'm not saying one is worse than the other however the recovery for emotional pain is far more achievable with time than physical recovery .
__________________
Not Not Ali Legend: I eat my own **** and masturbate to gay porn.

[̲̅$̲̅(̲̅1̲̅)̲̅$̲̅] [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅1̲̅)̲̅$̲̅l bill ya'lllllllll
_PBH_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 01:25 PM #6
TheSilentAssassin
Words and Stuff
 
TheSilentAssassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by _PBH_ View Post
I'm not saying one is worse than the other however the recovery for emotional pain is far more achievable with time than physical recovery .
Says who? Also, why is that relevant at all? I have said suicide is illogical, but how does this make it selfish?

It is far more selfish to expect someone to endure severe pain day in and day out so that you (their family/friends) don't have to.
__________________
“There are only two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don’t know it.” – G. K. Chesterton - The Mercy of Mr. Arnold Bennett, Fancies vs. Fads

Last edited by TheSilentAssassin : 12-27-2012 at 02:22 PM.
TheSilentAssassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 02:54 PM #7
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Continuing to live a life as a depressed slag of **** is probably bringing more dishonor to your family and yourself than the shame brought by suicide.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 04:42 PM #8
TheSilentAssassin
Words and Stuff
 
TheSilentAssassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
I can always trust martian to come in and make me sound reasonable. Lol.
__________________
“There are only two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don’t know it.” – G. K. Chesterton - The Mercy of Mr. Arnold Bennett, Fancies vs. Fads
TheSilentAssassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 05:21 PM #9
_PBH_
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MA
The point is not giving up. It takes courage to reachout when you feel like there's no hope left.

A good example is my uncle. He was shot by the police when trying to flee from a domestic disturbance call at his house. The shots landed in his spine and he was paralyzed from the waist down and has minimal function in his left arm. When he was in the hospital he tried to cut his wrists vertically . The nurses and doctors saved his life. My family has never been closer since the incident, we've all pulled together to let him know we all still love and care about him even though he made a great mistake. Since then hes still in recovery but the bond we built around him has made him a much stronger person and after seeing how we all came together for him he saught more value in his own life.
when I said that there are more physical circumstances that would justify suicide I was referring to ones such as a coma or an enduced vegitable state where their life might as well already be over for the patient. Other than that, suicide is a pathetic quick fix to a temporary difficult time in your life that leaves the ones that cared about you angry confused and hurt.
__________________
Not Not Ali Legend: I eat my own **** and masturbate to gay porn.

[̲̅$̲̅(̲̅1̲̅)̲̅$̲̅] [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅1̲̅)̲̅$̲̅l bill ya'lllllllll
_PBH_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 05:30 PM #10
TheSilentAssassin
Words and Stuff
 
TheSilentAssassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by _PBH_ View Post
The point is not giving up. It takes courage to reachout when you feel like there's no hope left.
Then why support euthanization? Why should they be allowed to give up? Why shouldn't they have to endure agony with hope like the suicidal depressed do?

Also, what does any of this have to do with selfishness? If the people that commit suicide lack courage, then they are cowards not selfish.
__________________
“There are only two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don’t know it.” – G. K. Chesterton - The Mercy of Mr. Arnold Bennett, Fancies vs. Fads
TheSilentAssassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 05:38 PM #11
Subterfuge
Arctic Wolf
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alaska
 has been a member for 10 years
You said in one story one of your coaches committed suicide when it was found out he cheated on his wife. In my experience, someone I trusted with my life wanted to commit suicide not because he was selfish, but because he thought he could not be forgiven. He also cheated on his wife.

Last edited by Subterfuge : 12-27-2012 at 08:16 PM.
Subterfuge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 05:39 PM #12
_PBH_
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MA
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
Then why support euthanization? Why should they be allowed to give up? Why shouldn't they have to endure agony with hope like the suicidal depressed do?

Also, what does any of this have to do with selfishness? If the people that commit suicide lack courage, then they are cowards not selfish.
the level of agony isn't the question that determines it being justified, it's how it will effect people after they are gone. most families and friends have a different level of understanding if someone where to end their life given the circumstances that they didn't have the ability to life a life out of a hospital bed.
__________________
Not Not Ali Legend: I eat my own **** and masturbate to gay porn.

[̲̅$̲̅(̲̅1̲̅)̲̅$̲̅] [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅1̲̅)̲̅$̲̅l bill ya'lllllllll
_PBH_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 07:02 PM #13
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
I can always trust martian to come in and make me sound reasonable. Lol.
I figure that being alive if only to hear Haydn's first cello concerto is reason enough to have lived.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 07:15 PM #14
TheSilentAssassin
Words and Stuff
 
TheSilentAssassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by _PBH_ View Post
most families and friends have a different level of understanding if someone where to end their life given the circumstances that they didn't have the ability to life a life out of a hospital bed.
This strand of moral relativism is absolutely silly. People's decisions to ultimately prolong their pain or opt out of it should not be based on a societal ignorance of depression and mental health. If you believe suicide is selfish simply because families feel more averse to it than euthanization, then this conversation has met its end.

Also, once again, I must point out that this has nothing to do with selfishness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
I figure that being alive if only to hear Haydn's first cello concerto is reason enough to have lived.
I've never been one for classical music. Simply not my taste. But I may give it a listen tonight simply from your recommendation.
__________________
“There are only two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don’t know it.” – G. K. Chesterton - The Mercy of Mr. Arnold Bennett, Fancies vs. Fads

Last edited by TheSilentAssassin : 12-27-2012 at 07:17 PM.
TheSilentAssassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 07:33 PM #15
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
This strand of moral relativism is absolutely silly. People's decisions to ultimately prolong their pain or opt out of it should not be based on a societal ignorance of depression and mental health. If you believe suicide is selfish simply because families feel more averse to it than euthanization, then this conversation has met its end.

Also, once again, I must point out that this has nothing to do with selfishness.



I've never been one for classical music. Simply not my taste. But I may give it a listen tonight simply from your recommendation.
If you're not into classical music, than just listen to the third movement. There is a specific composer who does the best version I've heard. Unfortunately I can't find it on YouTube.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 07:36 PM #16
TheSilentAssassin
Words and Stuff
 
TheSilentAssassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
I'm sure I would like it if I got into it. My largest deterrent is that I would feel very pretentious listening to it, although admittedly that is a ****ty reason not to. But I'll certainly check it out. Anything else that tops your list?
__________________
“There are only two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don’t know it.” – G. K. Chesterton - The Mercy of Mr. Arnold Bennett, Fancies vs. Fads
TheSilentAssassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 08:21 PM #17
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
I'm sure I would like it if I got into it. My largest deterrent is that I would feel very pretentious listening to it, although admittedly that is a ****ty reason not to. But I'll certainly check it out. Anything else that tops your list?
I could upload it to mediafire. I found only the first movement on youtube.

I don't understand how you would feel pretentious?

off the top of my head:
Franz Schubert - Death and the Maiden

Bach - St. John Passion. Also, his cello suites are amazing.

Paganini - violin caprices, look for James Ehnes

Mendlessohn - Violin concerto in E minor is great. Had the fortune of seeing Sarah Chang play this one last year.

Rhespigi - Pines of Rome, I personally think the second movement is most spectacular if you are looking for melancholie. It really builds into something strong at the conclusion.

Almost forgot:

Gustav Holst - Mars, Bringer of War

There are of course the obligatory Mozart Brahms and Beethoven. I assume you are exposed enough to their music.

Last edited by Iamamartianchurch : 12-27-2012 at 08:48 PM.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 09:30 PM #18
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Non European:

Mohammad Reza Shajarian - Night Silence Desert (the "desert" umm portion? of it is of particular interest)

A prayer of Kala Rupa - This is a traditional Tibetan song. Beyond worlds.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 11:28 PM #19
TheSilentAssassin
Words and Stuff
 
TheSilentAssassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
I'm not quite sure how mediafire works. Would it be much of a hastle? And in my circles classical music would seem rather snooty but so is studying philosophy sooo...
__________________
“There are only two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don’t know it.” – G. K. Chesterton - The Mercy of Mr. Arnold Bennett, Fancies vs. Fads
TheSilentAssassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 12:33 PM #20
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
I'm not quite sure how mediafire works. Would it be much of a hastle? And in my circles classical music would seem rather snooty but so is studying philosophy sooo...
Then I will take pleasure in turning you into an elitist snob.

For me, yes. Just YouTube it.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2012, 05:09 AM #21
Hashish
Science is all metaphor.
 
Hashish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Northern California
Hashish owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Hashish has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Hashish has perfected Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin
Personally, I think calling someone selfish for ending their pain is rather selfish in itself. Why would you ask someone who is in extreme pain to continue living so that their family doesn't have to be sad? That's extremely inhumane. If a person had a disease that caused incredible pain, would you expect him to not pull the plug so his family doesn't have to deal with that pain? Why do we as a society recognize the realness of physical pain but deny the realness of emotional pain?

Ultimately, I think suicide is illogical, but it surely isn't selfish.
I see a point within the case of the illness situation and you're on life support and that's the only thing keeping you alive...
Other than that they are selfish they are only worried about themselves and they do not think about what it does to the people around them. Like the OP says he lost contact with an elementary school friend and 10+ years later the guy offs himself and it ripples through effecting so many. Do you think that he was the only one that knew the guy and took it as a complete shock? People the guy didn't even know probably were effected.
All of the guys friends and family will most likely blame themselves as no human being should feel the need to end their own life for personal demons inside.
Just my point of view, I've had to save someone before. Anyway the person is selfish and doesn't truly think of what there actions truly do. Again in the OP he says Kurt Kobain was the first one he heard of, he was popular but he was someone he never knew or met and it effected him.
I'm just saying it effects more people than you think. What about those reading about it or hearing it on the news? It's all bad
__________________
GIVE RESPECT - RECEIVE RESPECT
Those of you who are here for therapy know who you are.. :p
Local Rules
Ebay - 26/0/0 - up to date -
Hashish is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump