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Old 02-01-2013, 10:35 AM #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EPAPressure View Post
You have the firearm shipped to a FFL from the internet
This. Unless you meet FTF. Then it's based on the state's rules.

However, if you do FTF, you have to have a bill of sale. On that BoS, they have to put down an address. If the address is not within your state, it's void and you can still be prosecuted.

Assuming anyone actually bothers to prosecute you ...
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:44 AM #590
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A bill of sale is not always required. It is not in Florida.

And even is background checks are "required" for private sales, who is going to go around enforcing that law? How do you? With "Stings" that have proven ineffective in a million other areas of law enforcement?

Do you rely on the people to do it because they are supposed to?

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Old 02-01-2013, 10:53 AM #591
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How much is the background check and how long would it take?
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:55 AM #592
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How much is the background check and how long would it take?
Couple bucks. It should take no longer than 5 - 10 minutes. FFL verifies identification, calls number, gives information, computer spits back if it's go/no go. Giving a SSN is very helpful here.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:56 AM #593
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How much is the background check and how long would it take?
depends on the FFL. between 25-50 bucks for a transfer and a few minutes for the check
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:58 AM #594
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I tell you what, you can take a safety course, and if you're still interested in guns after they've taken all the fun out of it, we'll go to the tournament.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:54 AM #595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F1VENOM View Post
How much is the background check and how long would it take?


1. $25 all the way to $75 depending where you live. In Chicago it's about $75 to transfer a gun. If you want to buy a gun anywhere in Illinois, whether private sale in a parking lot, at a gun show, or from a licensed FFL holder, you HAVE TO HAVE A FOID card. Yet the blood still runs in the gutters from all the hood rats in Chicago killing each other over drugs and sidewalk claims.

2. It can take anywhere from 2-3 minutes (people like me with an FFL 03 get approved instantly) up to an hour depending on ****. In recent times you've been put on backlogs for days.


In states without registration and licensing bull **** such as Missouri:

1. Buyer and seller MUST be same-state residents.

2. Must be able to pass a 4473 form questions.

3. Can only be title I firearms (you can't go buy a machinegun, AOW, or suppressor privately without getting the ATF involved)

Meanwhile outside of the ****holes with section 8 housing, crime is low and all is merry. All the gangbangers in places like Chicago that have guns didn't get theirs legally. If I was required to do FFL transfers for everything it would hinder my freedoms. "Shall not be infringed" is very clear. We took firearm and hunting safety courses during our K-12 education here. It should be like that everywhere. The NRA even pays for these programs if schools want to use them.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:58 AM #596
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Originally Posted by Space Pope View Post
A bill of sale is not always required. It is not in Florida.

And even is background checks are "required" for private sales, who is going to go around enforcing that law? How do you? With "Stings" that have proven ineffective in a million other areas of law enforcement?

Do you rely on the people to do it because they are supposed to?
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Originally Posted by Space Pope View Post
If they would provide a means by witch private individuals can submit information tot he NICS themselves and complete the sale without paying an FFL it would probably be a lot more palatable for people, but as it stands I do not believe they will make any difference. You are still going to have the same illegal sales, straw purchases, and other circumventions of he background check system that already happen today.
These are all the issues I feel need to be addressed if we truly do want to prevent weapons from falling into the hands of those who shouldn't have them. I do not claim to have the answers. I am simply pointing to the problems that need to be addressed. But I am not alright with "what we got is close enough" when innocent people are dying*.

*Please make the distinction between those innocent people dying to impossible to catch shooters. Some people just snap in the moment and that is nothing we can detect or prevent. I am talking about those victims shot by a person with a detectable psychological problem or those deemed legally unfit to carry because of their actions.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:58 PM #597
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The proposed background checks won't change any of that. The people buying guns from others on the street without the checks illegally will just keep doing it.

There is no one to check and make sure that they get an FFL involved and no way to prove when the sale took place, and no way to know the sale took place at all until a crime has been committed and the weapon recovered. Even then, so what? There is no way to find out where it came from besides asking the guy with the gun, and at that point the sale was just as illegal as it was before private sale background checks became mandatory.

People like me will have to pay some guy $30 to make everyone feel better about it. Nothing is going to change as a result of the law. There are still guns floating around and changing hands with no way for anyone to know about it.

What will forcing background checks for the people who will voluntarily submit to them solve?

Give me a convincing reason as to why this should go into place. You guys want to make a change; you have to prove why it is a good idea.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:47 PM #598
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Couple bucks. It should take no longer than 5 - 10 minutes.
Unless you bought after the CT shooting. Then it took a wee bit longer.




If you want a gun just join the cartel and the ATF will sell you one lol.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:58 PM #599
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My concern with mandatory checks fro private sales is finding dealers that will do it. in NY they will be required, but the law puts a fee limit of $10 for the FFL. I have a feeling a lot of dealers might not feel it is worth their time.

I know the ATF doesn't like garage FFL's anymore but I fully intend to apply anyway to see if I can get one to function as a private sale broker doing the checks. once the system for ammo dealers starts to shape up I may do that as well.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:50 AM #600
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If you want a gun just join the cartel and the ATF will sell you one lol.
Yes. Go join the cartel, and they will sell you a gun. How novel. I just may join the cartel right now. I hear there openings in my area.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:07 AM #601
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Unless you bought after the CT shooting. Then it took a wee bit longer.




If you want a gun just join the cartel and the ATF will sell you one lol.
Yes. Pre-panic, it took 5-10 minutes.

There's a nominal fee that the government charges, however, most FFLs simply roll that up into their FFL fee. Mine charges $30 to receive, process the paperwork, and make the background check call. He charges $15 to ship and will only ship to another FFL.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:26 AM #602
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Most states it is free for an FFL to do a transfer. However in states like Florida, the NICS system is handled by the state police and thus costs the FFL a bit of cash each time.
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:02 PM #603
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This blog seems both relevant to our discussions on gun control and relatively in-line with my previously expressed position on the topic. I don't normally like Sam Harris' writings, but this seemed too close to my position to pass over without sharing.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/t...dle-of-the-gun

A couple excerpts -

Quote:
Fifty-five million kids went to school on the day that 20 were massacred at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut. Even in the United States, therefore, the chances of a child’s dying in a school shooting are remote. As my friend Steven Pinker demonstrates in his monumental study of human violence, The Better Angels of Our Nature, our perception of danger is easily distorted by rare events. Is gun violence increasing in the United States? No. But it certainly seems to be when one recalls recent atrocities in Newtown and Aurora. In fact, the overall rate of violent crime has fallen by 22 percent in the past decade (and 18 percent in the past five years).

We still have more guns and more gun violence than any other developed country, but the correlation between guns and violence in the United States is far from straightforward. Thirty percent of urban households have at least one firearm. This figure increases to 42 percent in the suburbs and 60 percent in the countryside. As one moves away from cities, therefore, the rate of gun ownership doubles. And yet gun violence is primarily a problem in cities. It is the people of Detroit, Oakland, Memphis, Little Rock, and Stockton who are at the greatest risk of being killed by guns.
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As I said at the outset, I do not know how we can solve the problem of gun violence. A renewed ban on “assault weapons”—nearly the only concrete measure that anyone is talking about—will do very little to make our society safer. It is not, as many advocates seem to believe, an important “first step” in achieving a sane policy with respect to guns. It seems likely to be a symbolic step that delays real thinking about the problem of guns for another decade or more. By all means, let us ban these weapons. But when the next lunatic arrives at a school armed with legal pistols and a dozen ten-round magazines, we should be prepared to talk about how an assault weapons ban was a distraction from the real issue of gun violence.

One of the greatest impediments to actually solving the riddle of guns in our society is the pious concern that many people have about the intent of the Second Amendment. It should hardly need to be said that despite its brilliance and utility, the Constitution of the United States was written by men who could not possibly have foreseen every change that would occur in American society in the ensuing centuries. Even if the Second Amendment guaranteed everyone the right to possess whatever weapon he or she desired (it doesn’t), we have since invented weapons that no civilian should be allowed to own. In fact, it can be easily argued that original intent of the Second Amendment had nothing to do with the right of self-defense—which remains the ethical case to be made for owning a firearm. The amendment seems to have been written to allow the states to check the power of the federal government by maintaining their militias. Given the changes that have occurred in our military, and even in our politics, the idea that a few pistols and an AR 15 in every home constitutes a necessary bulwark against totalitarianism is fairly ridiculous. If you believe that the armed forces of the United States might one day come for you—and you think your cache of small arms will suffice to defend you if they do—I’ve got a black helicopter to sell you.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:27 PM #604
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Given the changes that have occurred in our military, and even in our politics, the idea that a few pistols and an AR 15 in every home constitutes a necessary bulwark against totalitarianism is fairly ridiculous.
This idiot doesn't realize citizens outnumber the military 216 to 1. Or maybe he thinks they have a tank or helicopter for every soldier in the military.

Quote:
If you believe that the armed forces of the United States might one day come for you—and you think your cache of small arms will suffice to defend you if they do—I’ve got a black helicopter to sell you.
Of course, just ignore the millions of deaths that governments all over the world caused in the past, there's no way history could possibly repeat itself so why bother even being prepared.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:13 AM #605
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Isnt the largest standing militia in the world the American hunters?
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:01 AM #606
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This idiot doesn't realize citizens outnumber the military 216 to 1. Or maybe he thinks they have a tank or helicopter for every soldier in the military.



Of course, just ignore the millions of deaths that governments all over the world caused in the past, there's no way history could possibly repeat itself so why bother even being prepared.
His failure of even the most analytical thinking is even worse. He simply assumes that everyone in the military would be totally okay with shooting on civilians. They will not. In fact, you would get massive "defections" from the military. All these conversations that we're having are being held in barracks rooms and offices throughout military installations.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:37 AM #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slateman View Post
His failure of even the most analytical thinking is even worse. He simply assumes that everyone in the military would be totally okay with shooting on civilians. They will not. In fact, you would get massive "defections" from the military. All these conversations that we're having are being held in barracks rooms and offices throughout military installations.
I remember having those conversations, then I remember a gun happy e4 with me during a security violation at a nuclear weapon facility. He wanted to gun down a civilian worker because the guy was panicking and not understanding the things that were being yelled at him. I also remember reading about a issue with the Nasty Girls and a college campus... something about a flower in a gun barrel?

I'd love to say the majority of my brothers (and sisters) have the clarity of thought to realize the illegal order from the legal order. I will do my best to be optimistic, and pray it never comes to that.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:37 AM #608
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This blog seems both relevant to our discussions on gun control and relatively in-line with my previously expressed position on the topic. I don't normally like Sam Harris' writings, but this seemed too close to my position to pass over without sharing.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/t...dle-of-the-gun

A couple excerpts -
There were nearly 15 million hunting liscenses issued by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in 2011. That is just hunters. Do you honestly think that more than 15 million armed individuals is meaningless?
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:45 AM #609
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