Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

View Poll Results: Should teachers be allowed to carry?
Yes, with the requirements listed. 21 43.75%
Yes, but only administration and office personel 2 4.17%
Yes, with just a CC license/permit 12 25.00%
No, but they should be able to leave their weapons in their vehicles 2 4.17%
No way 11 22.92%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-21-2012, 11:28 AM #1
vikingshadow
SCHWING!
 
vikingshadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Downtown
Annual Supporting Member
vikingshadow is a Moderator
 has been a member for 10 years
vikingshadow supports Team VICIOUS
vikingshadow supports Team VICIOUS
vikingshadow supports our troops
Should teachers be allowed to carry?

I'm building up information to write in my blog about giving teachers the right to conceal carry in school. To do this, I'm looking up information, but more importantly I want actual real life people telling me their opinions. I have polls set up all over the place and I'm asking that people, at the very minimum, give me a yes or no answer. Of course, your reasoning is welcome. I would ask that people don't flame/troll each other in this thread because we all come from different backgrounds and were raised differently, so our beliefs are just that - our personal beliefs.

Let me set it up for you. Oklahoma has a senator that is writing a bill to allow teachers to carry. From what I've read so far, there are about 7 other states doing the same thing - Texas already does it in some districts. I agree with the bill, but I would include these stipulations.

1. Strictly voluntary for the teachers - if they don't want to, they don't have to.
2. Reserve CLEET training. (Basically once you complete this you're on the level of training a reserve LEO gets in Oklahoma, at least.)
3. Monthly required range fire sessions.
4. Concealed carry license required.
5. Anonymity. (Unfortunately, as the only male in my building, it'll be assumed I'm carrying whether I am or not.)
6. Bi-yearly 14 hour (minimum) training/class in assault.
7. Weapon kept in a gun safe, locked, in either desk or cabinet not accessible to students. If kept on body (recess duty, bus trips, or lunch room duty) it is to be hidden from view.
8. Information kept in file on the ability to carry in the classroom, updated yearly by the district.

In the unlikely and horrible situation a shooter does come, the carriers will STAY WITH THEIR STUDENTS, making sure they are covered and will not leave the room they are assigned. In other words, don't go looking for the gunman.

I do not necessarily support mental health testing as teachers are no more or no less susceptible to this than any other legal, carrying citizen.

If you'll help me out, I'd appreciate it.

1. Leave a yes or no answer, and vote in the poll. Comment if you want, but please think about your reasons.
2. No trolling or flaming.

I may even include information garnered from this thread in a letter to the legislature of my state if I deem it important enough!
__________________

I'm selling all my paintball stuff! Look here! My Baby! Phantom Pump
vikingshadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 12-21-2012, 11:35 AM #2
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Band-Aid solution.

No, they should not.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 11:38 AM #3
ElJefe13
 
 
ElJefe13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Utah
ElJefe13 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
ElJefe13 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
ElJefe13 supports Empire
I know about 50% of my teachers carry here (loose gun laws in Utah). That means that if some shooter breaks into my class, we have a better plan than hide or try to beat him to death w/ a textbook.
__________________
Women are like Wookies; you always let them win.
ElJefe13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 11:42 AM #4
Volucris
asmuchtextastheywillallow
 
Volucris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Nashville
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Band-Aid solution.

No, they should not.
So you still think we should have gun free zones where law-abiding people are not able to defend themselves?
Volucris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 11:53 AM #5
spracks21
Zap Rowsdower
 
spracks21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Lincoln, NE
spracks21 plays in the PSP
spracks21 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
spracks21 supports Team VICIOUS
spracks21 plays in the APPA D3 division
Teachers are not security guards. These are two separate occupations, and require different training and backgrounds. Just hire legit police officers if you want more security and a gun in the school.
__________________
Aimless Factory
#21
spracks21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 11:58 AM #6
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volucris View Post
So you still think we should have gun free zones where law-abiding people are not able to defend themselves?
No I'm saying reactionary thinking doesn't do anyone any good. I'm not going to endorse non-solutions.

Sure, you succeed today in stopping someone from walking into a school with the intention to kill. Maybe, you arm all of society so he thinks twice about shooting anyone. I guarantee one thing, an individual with the desire will resort to some destructive behavior as an outlet.

Last edited by Iamamartianchurch : 12-21-2012 at 12:00 PM.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 11:59 AM #7
StellarKnight
Mind Erasure
 
StellarKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Lost...In a Lost World
StellarKnight is a Supporting Member
StellarKnight is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
StellarKnight has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Band-Aid solution.

No, they should not.
.

Like stringent gun control measures, this doesn't really address the problem. If anything, this has the potential to cause far more problems than it actually will solve because it exposes school districts to a whole new avenue of liability.
__________________
Evil presupposes a moral decision, intention, and some forethought. A moron doesn't stop to think or reason. He acts on instinct, like a stable animal, convinced he's doing good, that he's always right, and sanctimoniously proud to go around ****ing up . . .What the world needs is more thoroughly evil people and fewer idiot ****heads.
StellarKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 12:21 PM #8
ladd_17
bA What?!?
 
ladd_17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Nasti 'Nati
ladd_17 is a Supporting Member
ladd_17 plays in the PSP
ladd_17 plays in the APPA D3 division
ladd_17 is Boss
I'm all for it. It shouldn't be mandatory, but the teachers who are comfortable with such responsibility should not be prevented from having it.
__________________
ladd_17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 12:24 PM #9
ElJefe13
 
 
ElJefe13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Utah
ElJefe13 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
ElJefe13 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
ElJefe13 supports Empire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post

No I'm saying reactionary thinking doesn't do anyone any good. I'm not going to endorse non-solutions.

Sure, you succeed today in stopping someone from walking into a school with the intention to kill. Maybe, you arm all of society so he thinks twice about shooting anyone. I guarantee one thing, an individual with the desire will resort to some destructive behavior as an outlet.
We do have cops at schools. At least at mine. But we have one cop, and he's at the far end of the building. He won't make it over to where the shooting is happening in time. And we don't have the budget to put in any more. Allowing teachers to CC is a quick, easy, cheap fix and I think it'll work.
__________________
Women are like Wookies; you always let them win.
ElJefe13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 12:30 PM #10
IBleed Arbor
vtec just kicked in, yo!
 
IBleed Arbor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Connecticut
IBleed Arbor plays in the PSP
IBleed Arbor owns a Planet Eclipse CSL
IBleed Arbor is reppin' sidebar 4 life
IBleed Arbor is Boss
IBleed Arbor supports DLX Technology
Who's to say a teacher won't go crazy?
IBleed Arbor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 12:32 PM #11
ElJefe13
 
 
ElJefe13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Utah
ElJefe13 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
ElJefe13 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
ElJefe13 supports Empire
Aren't they already?
__________________
Women are like Wookies; you always let them win.
ElJefe13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 12:33 PM #12
Drex17
Valar Morghulis
 
Drex17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ilium, NY
Drex17 is one of the top 25 posters on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by vikingshadow View Post
1. Strictly voluntary for the teachers - if they don't want to, they don't have to.
Agree
2. Reserve CLEET training. (Basically once you complete this you're on the level of training a reserve LEO gets in Oklahoma, at least.)
not a terrible idea
3. Monthly required range fire sessions.
seems a bit excessive, I can understand the want for more than annual, but bi-annual or quartely would be more realistic
4. Concealed carry license required.
agree
5. Anonymity. (Unfortunately, as the only male in my building, it'll be assumed I'm carrying whether I am or not.)
agree
6. Bi-yearly 14 hour (minimum) training/class in assault.
like above, that might be a bit too frequent
7. Weapon kept in a gun safe, locked, in either desk or cabinet not accessible to students. If kept on body (recess duty, bus trips, or lunch room duty) it is to be hidden from view.
agree and disagree. They shouldn't open carry, but I also feel the gun should NEVER be off the body of whoever is carrying it. Leaving it in a safe or locked cabinet means it would likely be left unattended for short periods.
8. Information kept in file on the ability to carry in the classroom, updated yearly by the district.
cant argue with the school wanting to keep qualification records.
Overall I do support teachers and administrators carrying, and I even feel additional requirements over normal CCW are appropriate, but we also don't want to make it such a hassle that even while legal, nobody want to do it.
__________________
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
Drex17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 12:47 PM #13
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElJefe13 View Post
We do have cops at schools. At least at mine. But we have one cop, and he's at the far end of the building. He won't make it over to where the shooting is happening in time. And we don't have the budget to put in any more. Allowing teachers to CC is a quick, easy, cheap fix and I think it'll work.
This does not at all address the point I had made. I don't mean any offense.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 12:48 PM #14
Lazarusrat
 
 
Lazarusrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Lazarusrat owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
I hate to ditto but I agree with Drex.

The monthly range and Bi-yearly training seems excessive. (The military only requires an annual weapons qual as does the Casper PD and Natrona Country Sheriff Dept)

I also agree that if you carry you need to carry and not leave it in the classroom, even if its in secured location.
__________________
"If you prepare for the zombie apocalypse, you'll be prepared for all hazards," CDC spokesman Dave Daigle told Reuters over the phone on Thursday.
Lazarusrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 01:07 PM #15
Overbear
#2 Anti Stim Club Member!
 
Overbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Leandro, CA
Overbear is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by spracks21 View Post
Teachers are not security guards. These are two separate occupations, and require different training and backgrounds. Just hire legit police officers if you want more security and a gun in the school.
You sir, have no grasp on reality what so ever. We trust teachers with our children 8+ hours a day, to fill their heads with knowlage, but we don't trust them to carry a handgun?
__________________
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Thomas Jefferson

A democracy is, two wolves and a sheep voting on dinner.
A republic is, two sheep and a wolf voting on dinner.
A constitutional republic is, voting on dinner is expressly forbidden and the sheep are armed.

Armed gays don't get bashed - www.pinkpistols.org

ssgaR: 'faith is the path of least resistance'."

Rapier7: Don't be a douche
Overbear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 01:14 PM #16
tsbalr120
Goooonsberry
 
tsbalr120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cowbutt, AR
tsbalr120 is an NCPA player
tsbalr120 is Legendary
I'd say let the parents vote first if they want them to each year.
__________________
|NCPA: Razorbacks|
rip120
tsbalr120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 01:17 PM #17
AlphaNeo36
lapping your tears
 
AlphaNeo36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 765-IN
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by spracks21 View Post
Teachers are not security guards. These are two separate occupations, and require different training and backgrounds. Just hire legit police officers if you want more security and a gun in the school.
yep


They probably already have a program for this but have the federal or state government create a grant for cities and counties to hire additional officers specifically for school security. This still doesn't address the issue anyway so this thread is rather pointless.

I say we let the kids have weapons if they are 18 years of age. Gun free zones are literally Hitler.
__________________
Overbear: better 10 innocent men be convicted, than a single guilty man go free to commit more crime.
Overbear: I prefer that I be given a license to shoot anyone who would pick socialism or communism over the basic freedoms inherent to consumerism.
MatrixBaller04 AKA EricS6661: I can guarantee something will happen between now and February 9th.
yesme: i'm not saying you should invest in gold first off, you would be much better off to invest in food,stuff you use and will keep for a couple of years, like razors
Blake360: in highschool, my teacher's father worked for the CIA and she brought my class documents proving the Roswell crash was of extraterrestrial origin.
AlphaNeo36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 01:33 PM #18
Ford
☻♦♣b
 
Ford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Austin 49
Ford is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
No thanks. I barely trust some teachers to give me a fair grade. How I would trust their aim and ability to determine who's a shooter and who is not is something I'd rather not think about.
__________________
"Originally posted by Bronk0
Everyone put something in your sig about it...

like PORN THREAD 10/24/04: I was there.
"
Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 01:45 PM #19
Fuzzy R. McNuggs
yes
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
yea armed security guards would be better
Fuzzy R. McNuggs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 01:59 PM #20
StellarKnight
Mind Erasure
 
StellarKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Lost...In a Lost World
StellarKnight is a Supporting Member
StellarKnight is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
StellarKnight has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overbear View Post
You sir, have no grasp on reality what so ever. We trust teachers with our children 8+ hours a day, to fill their heads with knowlage, but we don't trust them to carry a handgun?
The issue isn't so much whether we trust teachers to carry a handgun; it's whether it's a teacher's responsibility to forcefully defend the classroom on the off-chance a nutter with a gun decides to let loose. If we task teachers with that responsibility, what happens if/when a gunman shoots up a classroom and the teacher either isn't armed or doesn't use their firearm for whatever reason?

Just because you've placed your trust in an entity to perform a certain task doesn't automatically mean they're suited to do something else. I trust my accountant to handle my financial affairs, but I wouldn't expect him to give me legal advice when someone illegally uses my bank account to buy midget porn in Florida.
__________________
Evil presupposes a moral decision, intention, and some forethought. A moron doesn't stop to think or reason. He acts on instinct, like a stable animal, convinced he's doing good, that he's always right, and sanctimoniously proud to go around ****ing up . . .What the world needs is more thoroughly evil people and fewer idiot ****heads.

Last edited by StellarKnight : 12-21-2012 at 02:02 PM.
StellarKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2012, 02:06 PM #21
AlphaNeo36
lapping your tears
 
AlphaNeo36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: 765-IN
 has been a member for 10 years
Isn't it ironic that OB is equating trust with teachers teaching kids and trusting teacher firearm ownership in schools when he can't spell or use proper grammar?
__________________
Overbear: better 10 innocent men be convicted, than a single guilty man go free to commit more crime.
Overbear: I prefer that I be given a license to shoot anyone who would pick socialism or communism over the basic freedoms inherent to consumerism.
MatrixBaller04 AKA EricS6661: I can guarantee something will happen between now and February 9th.
yesme: i'm not saying you should invest in gold first off, you would be much better off to invest in food,stuff you use and will keep for a couple of years, like razors
Blake360: in highschool, my teacher's father worked for the CIA and she brought my class documents proving the Roswell crash was of extraterrestrial origin.
AlphaNeo36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump