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Old 12-16-2012, 10:36 PM #1
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Low FPS. Won't shoot over 270. Gun techs weigh in.

Okay so I've searched around the DLX forum quite a bit but just haven't been able to fully fix my problem.

Basically the issue is my first shots are low, less than 200 fps because my chrono wont read. Then I get around the 230-265 mark after a few more shots. When I go to increase my velocity adjustment screw, I get noid purge. So I have my velocity adjustment screw in as much as I can with out having the noid purge, and I still only get around 260 fps.

Along with this irritatingly low fps there is also an extremely tiny leak coming from the top of the grip on the speaker side when I air it up. The sound is almost not audible unless you're in a quiet room but it sounds like a high pitched bubbling squeak/hiss. This noise usually subsides after a few shots.

Gun is a 1.0 with 2.0 core, board, eyes

FT screw in
Manifold 2 turns in from flush
Dwell 16ms
FSD 7ms

Shoots buttery smooth but it's a hog on air with low fps


Things I've tried:

-Cleaned/serviced Reg (twice)
-Checked Reg seat (looks fine, normal circle ring imprint in the middle but no other damage)
-Watched Pooty's o-ring fitment videos
-Checked all engine o-rings and always re-lubed after play using Sl33k
-Tightened noid screws
-Checked and slightly lubed body o-ring
-Battery at full charge

Only O-ring I'm iffy about is the second one from the front on the bolt itself. Seems to fit fine diameter wise but has some 'back and fourth' play, if that makes sense.


Also a little FYI - it's about 1 degree Celsius or 32 F outside and this is my first winter with a Luxe so I'm curious if my low FPS has something to do with it being cold because I don't think I had this problem in the summer time.

Thanks in advance for all your suggestions.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:30 AM #2
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Call dlx and explain, they will probably send you a different reg spring. That should be the problem .
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:47 AM #3
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What lube are you using? You're also using the pooty bolt not the 2.0 bolt or the 1.0 bolt? Have you tried swapping the bolt out if you have the stock one?

It is smart to always keep an extra bolt on hand to be able to test if an o-ring is the issue or something "more serious".

As for the leak you hear. It could either be the solenoid leaking, the o-ring between the trigger frame and the upper body, or it could be a leak in the bolt area or back plunger. Figure out where the leak is coming from as it could be part of the issue.

Paint to bore match? what size freak insert are you using? What type of paint? Underbore more if needed.


Best guess is to send it to DLX if you are not able to figure it out yourself. You won't be able to use the marker anyway - so may as well have it being repaired rather than sitting in your bag giving you a headache.
I would attribute it to the
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:27 AM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sox View Post
Call dlx and explain, they will probably send you a different reg spring. That should be the problem .
I guess it couldn't hurt to call DLX and explain my issue. Would be nice if it was just a reg spring.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:49 AM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillysteve View Post
What lube are you using? You're also using the pooty bolt not the 2.0 bolt or the 1.0 bolt? Have you tried swapping the bolt out if you have the stock one?

It is smart to always keep an extra bolt on hand to be able to test if an o-ring is the issue or something "more serious".

As for the leak you hear. It could either be the solenoid leaking, the o-ring between the trigger frame and the upper body, or it could be a leak in the bolt area or back plunger. Figure out where the leak is coming from as it could be part of the issue.

Paint to bore match? what size freak insert are you using? What type of paint? Underbore more if needed.


Best guess is to send it to DLX if you are not able to figure it out yourself. You won't be able to use the marker anyway - so may as well have it being repaired rather than sitting in your bag giving you a headache.
I would attribute it to the
I'm running the stock 2.0 core and bolt and lubing with Sl33k/Dow33

I don't have the original or a spare bolt to swap with. This sounds like a great idea to isolate the issue as I feel the leak may be coming from the 16/70 o-ring on the bolt itself. I've also inspected and re-lubed the 1x25mm orings in the back cap. I am hoping it's not the solenoid that is the issue

http://i967.photobucket.com/albums/a...uxediagram.jpg

I usually run a .687 insert shooting GI Sportz 2 Star. Usually with this insert and paint match the paint can be inserted with little effort and blown out by mouth with minimal force. Sometimes I can get away with underboring with a .684 depending on the weather using the same paint.

I will probably put in a call to DLX if I can't find the problem with in the next week. The thing is the issues are on that line of 'oh it's not that bad' so I tend to ignore them and just go play - but now it's getting to be a bother and like you said - better to have it fixed than to be the cause of a headache.

Thanks for your input.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:21 PM #6
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Check the 17/70 urethane oring in the back cap. If that doesnt fix the low fps issue call dlx and get a new reg spring.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:17 PM #7
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Called DLX.

They said swap in a test reg (which I don't have or else I would have done this already) to isolate the regulator for leaks or over pressurization.

If that doesn't fix the leak or low fps they said to replace the bolt sail o-ring and the inner can o-rings.

If that doesn't work they said I might be looking at a new noid.

I asked if the reg spring would have any effect on this and they said 'no'.

Guess I'll try these things here in the next week.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:41 PM #8
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Mine was doing the same thing until I removed the f/t screw. Hope that works.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:20 AM #9
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The feathertouch screw cannot directly cause problems, but could simply magnify an already occurring issue. The reg spring CAN cause that, if it's the newer type, even if they told you no. I have seen a few have issues such as these.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:57 PM #10
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If you unscrew the power tube from the back cap, make sure the two orings are there. The one doesnt have recess/notch to sit in and can move/come out.
I misplaced this oring once and it did exactly as you are describing. Worth a shot anyways
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:10 PM #11
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Thanks everyone for the input. I'll post up a cure if I get time to try all these suggestions out.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:21 PM #12
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Okay here it is,

Got my Luxe tech'd by Danny at Doodlebugsportz.

Things that were changed to fixed my issues:

-Checked reg/solenoid/body plugs for leaks - none found

-Board replaced (under warranty)

-Replaced 2x 17/70 O-rings in the power core - I assume inner can

-Replaced SFT O-ring

-Removed Feather Touch screw

-Manifold screw ~ flush

-16ms Dwell time

-15BPS capped Semi

-Rebuilt eye cover/detents


Gun shoots amazingly! Prior I was getting horrible efficiency - 1000psi = 200 rounds on a 68/45

Now the gun shoots just as smoothly without the feather touch in, rate of fire has noticeably increased, and I was able to shoot just over 8 pods ( ~ 1200 rounds) off a 3900psi fill on a 68/45 at a super consistent +/- 290 feet per second all night long.

Luxe love at last
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:17 AM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jswing View Post
Okay here it is,

Got my Luxe tech'd by Danny at Doodlebugsportz.

Things that were changed to fixed my issues:

-Checked reg/solenoid/body plugs for leaks - none found

-Board replaced (under warranty)

-Replaced 2x 17/70 O-rings in the power core - I assume inner can

-Replaced SFT O-ring

-Removed Feather Touch screw

-Manifold screw ~ flush

-16ms Dwell time

-15BPS capped Semi

-Rebuilt eye cover/detents


Gun shoots amazingly! Prior I was getting horrible efficiency - 1000psi = 200 rounds on a 68/45

Now the gun shoots just as smoothly without the feather touch in, rate of fire has noticeably increased, and I was able to shoot just over 8 pods ( ~ 1200 rounds) off a 3900psi fill on a 68/45 at a super consistent +/- 290 feet per second all night long.

Luxe love at last
Do you know which reg spring you have? Ive been reading up on the issues some people have had with low and inconsistent velocities when having a certain reg spring. The shiny silver ones i believe. Seems they got their problems fixed with getting an older black or dull reg spring. Since your problem was fixed without a reg spring change im just curious if there were just some bad shiny springs or if everyone with the shiny spring and 2.0 cores had low velocity issues. Maybe you already had the good spring to begin with?

Thanks!
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:30 AM #14
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Question

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Originally Posted by xwiredx View Post
Do you know which reg spring you have? Ive been reading up on the issues some people have had with low and inconsistent velocities when having a certain reg spring. The shiny silver ones i believe. Seems they got their problems fixed with getting an older black or dull reg spring. Since your problem was fixed without a reg spring change im just curious if there were just some bad shiny springs or if everyone with the shiny spring and 2.0 cores had low velocity issues. Maybe you already had the good spring to begin with?

Thanks!
I have a shiny silver reg spring.

I very specifically asked DLX when I called them if my issues could in any way be related to a poor/defective/faulty reg sprig and they said 'no'. I'm not sure if I believe their answer %100 - seems like they wrote off my suspicions pretty quickly. That being said, to their credit, the gun did, and still works flawlessly with the same silver reg spring as before.

I think the inner can orings and the SFT oring were the kickers. Also by taking the FT out and bringing the manifold back to flush, this opens up a once previously restricted noid, allowing it to function easier with less air restriction gaining FPS with less up'ing of the velocity adjustment which equals no more purging.

**** Someone correct me here if I'm out to lunch on this ^ ****

Wouldn't mind putting in this 'other' reg spring in everyone seems to be switching to just to test it out now that my gun is firing good.

Hope this answers your questions.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:09 AM #15
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Thanks!
Interesting that it shoots just as smooth now without the FT in, and with the manifold flush compared to when you had the FT in and manifold at 2 turns in. How much of a velocity range would you say that all gave you? How many turns until your adjuster screw either bottoms out on the c-clip or the solenoid starts to vent?
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:17 AM #16
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Justin: I had a long drawn out response to this basically saying that people are crazy and just want to tinker. Bottom line: don't F with your gun. It is shooting AMAZING and changing your spring won't make it any better, trust me.

Everyone else: I can get you the magical non shiny spring! I will sell them to you all day for $10.00 plus shipping!

DISCLAIMER: I am telling you right now that they won't make your gun shoot any better. People seem to think they are magic and make everything shoot awesome. If you are one of those people, then buy it and try it. If you are subjective you fill find that the reg spring made 0 difference. You WILL have to adjust your reg but that is because you just changed the spring in your reg, meaning the output pressure of your regulator will change. This does not mean your reg pressure is magically lower or higher. You will end up using the adjustor to get your reg pressure back to what it was before you changed the spring and think your gun is shooting awesome. If you want to try this out I will happily accept your $10 for the spring. PM me to order!
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:20 AM #17
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How many turns until your adjuster screw either bottoms out on the c-clip or the solenoid starts to vent?
Please do not try this. Why would you intentionally turn your regulator up to the point where your solenoid vents without a chronograph / if venting does not happen in the course of getting your gun to >300FPS?

My suggestion for everyone in this forum (and that plays paintball in general): Only adjust your velocity / regulator pressures when you are at the chronograph. It will save you a lot of headaches and hopefully prevent damaged parts.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:35 AM #18
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Originally Posted by DC19 View Post
Please do not try this. Why would you intentionally turn your regulator up to the point where your solenoid vents without a chronograph / if venting does not happen in the course of getting your gun to >300FPS?

My suggestion for everyone in this forum (and that plays paintball in general): Only adjust your velocity / regulator pressures when you are at the chronograph. It will save you a lot of headaches and hopefully prevent damaged parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DC19 View Post
Justin: I had a long drawn out response to this basically saying that people are crazy and just want to tinker. Bottom line: don't F with your gun. It is shooting AMAZING and changing your spring won't make it any better, trust me.

Everyone else: I can get you the magical non shiny spring! I will sell them to you all day for $10.00 plus shipping!

DISCLAIMER: I am telling you right now that they won't make your gun shoot any better. People seem to think they are magic and make everything shoot awesome. If you are one of those people, then buy it and try it. If you are subjective you fill find that the reg spring made 0 difference. You WILL have to adjust your reg but that is because you just changed the spring in your reg, meaning the output pressure of your regulator will change. This does not mean your reg pressure is magically lower or higher. You will end up using the adjustor to get your reg pressure back to what it was before you changed the spring and think your gun is shooting awesome. If you want to try this out I will happily accept your $10 for the spring. PM me to order!
Should all 2.0's be capable of reaching full velocity no matter what reg spring is used, assuming the FT screw is in? It seems you were able to tune the OP's gun to shoot amazing, but had to remove the FT screw. What if someone wants to use the FT to achieve the smoothest/softest shot they can, is the only option to deal with low velocities?

I thought i read an old post of yours where you mentioned having the FT in, Dwell at 16ms for your 2.0's but i could be mistaken. Im running similar settings, FT in and cant seem to get much past 260ish area with the adjustment screw pretty much maxed. Starts to vent around a half turn away from maxed out.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:41 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC19 View Post
Justin: I had a long drawn out response to this basically saying that people are crazy and just want to tinker. Bottom line: don't F with your gun. It is shooting AMAZING and changing your spring won't make it any better, trust me!
Fair enough. Well said.

I know I am guilty for over tinkering and possibly causing more problems than I fix. I just have the need to understand how things function.

I won't be changing anything, the gun shoots perfect.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:50 PM #20
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I had dwell 14 and ft screw in on brand new 2.0. Wouldn't shoot over 260 and would vent the noid. At chrono took ft out had to turn down velocity because it was shooting 327. New spring and everything. And mine also shoots just as smooth as when the ft was in only shooting 260. Try only that and see.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:54 AM #21
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I just have a desire to understand how things function.
Fixed.
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