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Old 12-17-2012, 04:01 PM #295
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You know I always find it kind of interesting that people say things like
Quote:
Please explain to me in the Constitution where it requires training in order to bear arms?
and yet when you read the 2nd
Quote:
Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Its like they don't read that "well regulated" part. Back in 1776 all able bodied men were required to muster and train as a part of the local militia.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:04 PM #296
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I don't see anything controversial about it either.

premise: demographic shifts have made it that the democrats no longer need any of the southern white vote to win elections, thus making gun control advocacy politically possible.

I think I've read the same thing at National Review multiple times as well, lol.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:06 PM #297
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I was gonna point that out too laz, but I don't know much about constitutional law and figured guys like slateman knew what they were talking about.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:09 PM #298
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Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
It's almost entirely a summary of other people's writing.
And? It still has a slimy tone.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:13 PM #299
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Your posts have a slimy tone.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:15 PM #300
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Your posts have a slimy tone.
Neat.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:22 PM #301
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Not sure if this is accurate, but mother of shooter was apparently a survivalist nut:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ing-spree.html

I blame Ron Paul.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:50 PM #302
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/17/opinio...own/index.html
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:55 PM #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarusrat View Post
You know I always find it kind of interesting that people say things like

and yet when you read the 2nd

Its like they don't read that "well regulated" part. Back in 1776 all able bodied men were required to muster and train as a part of the local militia.
Don't read any other historical texts, you're likely to misinterpret those as well.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:56 PM #304
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You're delusional if you think southern whites are the only people who care about their firearms rights. There are a huge number of moderate conservatives (and democrats) who feel just as strongly about it.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:02 PM #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarusrat View Post
You know I always find it kind of interesting that people say things like

and yet when you read the 2nd


Its like they don't read that "well regulated" part. Back in 1776 all able bodied men were required to muster and train as a part of the local militia.
LOL, grammar time. What is the purpose of a comma? One of them is the separation of clauses.

So, "A well regulated Militia" is independent of the following "being necessary to the security of a free State" which is a dependent clause. That leaves "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" to be independent and the phrase "shall not be infringed" being dependent on the previous clause.

Furthermore, I would advise you to read what the founding fathers have said about carrying firearms and how the second amendment was originally written: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person."

The only real changes made were the striking down of conscientious objector status.

Finally, every right in the Constitution applies to the individual. Every single one of them. But according to your interpretation, it only applies to those in a specific group. Hmmm ....
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:46 PM #306
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Why we may finally see movement on the gun-control front:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/201...the-gun-lobby/
what the ****?
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:48 PM #307
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But its still all within the same sentence and therefore a single cohesive thought.

So by one saying, that comas, may separtate dependant and independant parts a of a sentance, they still do not make the two cluases separtate thoughts.

If the author wanted the two dependant and independant clauses to be taken and two separate, independant thoughts, they would have used a period.

As Tafari pointed out, just because you have rights it doesn't mean you can do what ever the **** you want. You can't carry your gun on to others property, you can't yell fire in a theater, and you can't carry a weapon in to a prison or court house.

Bottom line is there are limits to all rights.

What good does it do to have an armed guard if that guard can not use their weapon without putting innocent by-standards at risk because they have no training or clue how to use their weapon? It seems like the better solution is either require those guards to have training or not let them be armed (which makes being a guard kind of pointless).
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:50 PM #308
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Originally Posted by Tafari Makonnen View Post
What a slimy piece of writing that is.
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Originally Posted by undiscoveredtalent View Post
what the ****?
This is the second objection to this without any base. Would anyone like to actually discuss this or are we going to just continue in the realm of bull****?
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:00 PM #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarusrat View Post
But its still all within the same sentence and therefore a single cohesive thought.

So by one saying, that comas, may separtate dependant and independant parts a of a sentance, they still do not make the two cluases separtate thoughts.

If the author wanted the two dependant and independant clauses to be taken and two separate, independant thoughts, they would have used a period.

As Tafari pointed out, just because you have rights it doesn't mean you can do what ever the **** you want. You can't carry your gun on to others property, you can't yell fire in a theater, and you can't carry a weapon in to a prison or court house.

Bottom line is there are limits to all rights.

What good does it do to have an armed guard if that guard can not use their weapon without putting innocent by-standards at risk because they have no training or clue how to use their weapon? It seems like the better solution is either require those guards to have training or not let them be armed (which makes being a guard kind of pointless).
What does an armed guard have to do with your original comment?

Let me summarize the amendment for you, in modern uncultured quasieducated English for you:

Though a well regulated militia is required for a free state, the citizen's right to keep and use firearms shall not be infringed.

Some translation is required, I mean their F's and S's were nearly interchangeable back then.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:15 PM #310
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This is the second objection to this without any base. Would anyone like to actually discuss this or are we going to just continue in the realm of bull****?
Statements like :the pro-gun fanatics are basically the kind of people who think that Obama is a Kenyan socialist atheistic Islamist, and the urban hordes are coming for their property any day now" kinda remove any objectivity from what is being written and highlight the fact that he is just as ignorant/a giant twat as people that genuinely believe such things.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:42 PM #311
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I understand the point of the article and I don't believe it's true. Introducing gun control at this point would give the GOP powerful ammunition. They are at the beginning stages of possible platform reform towards moderation after the fail this year and stupid comments like those from the article could sway a good portion of the undecided if spewed from party leaders.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:58 PM #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tafari Makonnen View Post
Statements like :the pro-gun fanatics are basically the kind of people who think that Obama is a Kenyan socialist atheistic Islamist, and the urban hordes are coming for their property any day now" kinda remove any objectivity from what is being written and highlight the fact that he is just as ignorant/a giant twat as people that genuinely believe such things.
You don't necessarily need objectivity to make an argument. A blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut and all. The core idea is that Obama won without the southern white vote and that the democrats should apply the same logic to gun control.

The real questions to be addressed here are:
1) Could the democrats push through gun control?
2) Should they?

His bias doesn't change that...

My answers:
1) Yes 2) No

But baseless *****ing and "what the ****"ing isn't good discussion and doesn't belong here.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:16 PM #313
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What gun control measures do you believe the Democrats could push through? They don't exactly have the world at the their finger tips right now...

My prediction is everyone forgets about this tragedy in a couple weeks and nothing comes from it until the next event, ad infinitum.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:30 PM #314
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What gun control measures do you believe the Democrats could push through? They don't exactly have the world at the their finger tips right now...
Sorry, I wasn't clear. By they could, I meant that they don't have to necessarily be concerned with public opinion in doing so. The feasibility I am not sure of. However they shouldn't if they care at all about long term public opinion (specifically giving the GOP ammunition as you addressed).

Why they don't need to worry about public opinion in the short run with regards to certain types of gun control:
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:33 PM #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36 View Post
What gun control measures do you believe the Democrats could push through? They don't exactly have the world at the their finger tips right now...

My prediction is everyone forgets about this tragedy in a couple weeks and nothing comes from it until the next event, ad infinitum.
I would think some obvious ones like the gun show loopholes, perhaps some shoring up of the national database and more than anything, getting some help for the mental healthcare community.

Here's some food for thought. The original AWB was derided because it focused on appearance and configuration more than anything; what would you say to an AWB that focused on performance?
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