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Old 12-16-2012, 11:14 AM #211
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Aspergers isn't a bannable offense.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:44 PM #212
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Back on topic:

As a 2nd grade teacher, I'm horrified at this. My heart aches and it's absolutely terrifying. Friday, I just looked at my students, and although they can be major pains in the <del><del><del><del>*****</del></del></del></del> sometimes, they are ALL loving, gentle, kind souls that would do anything for an adult and so willing to love just about everone. As a teacher, it doesn't surprise me one bit that these teachers protected their students as they did. Non-teachers don't realize that when you spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for months on end with this kids - laughing, joking, playing, teasing, and yes, chastising at times these young, open, loving minds (younger children) they become every bit as important to you as your own children. I would hope I would do the same to protect my students, but of course, God forbid, I'll never know unless it happens.

Controversy time: What I do know is that I wish I COULD carry at school. Yes, I know most non-teachers are going to gasp and say, "OMG! How can you say that?!!! You teach KIDS! Shame on you!" But let me tell you how lockdown works at my school.

First of all, for background. I live in a town of about 20,000 COUNTED citizens. What I mean is, that over the past 4 years, this town has grown so much due to the oil and natural gas boom that there are people actually living in tents at the state park just outside of town, people living in hastily made RV parks all around town, and trailer parks springing up all over the place. Last I heard, the actual count of people living in this town was closer to 35000 - 40000 but they aren't counted because they aren't "permanent". You can't find a house to rent in this town under 800/month, and there isn't an apartment available since the companies are renting them for their employees in the dozens at a time. Most of the people are here a few months, then move on, and none have an actual address/mailbox. Our "homeless" rate is climbing because of this. Most are great people just looking for jobs. Others, not so much.

Our school population has risen from around 1000 in 2005 to about 3000, and we've only built one additional school so far - an early childhood center made for about 700 people (adults and children) that now houses about 900 people. We've added additional classes to every grade level in every school just to keep our class sizes down, but we can't hire enough teachers to cover in some areas.

Over the last 3 years, we've had 4 actual lockdowns - not practices. Fortunately, two were not because of actual shooters, one was because of an escaped prisoner from the prison, and one was because of a man shooting his wife just a few blocks away.

Now, I teach in a room that is the second one down the hall from the front doors. The office is right beside the front doors. One of my walls is covered with about 90% windows. Every year, the students say, "What if the shooter is outside? They'll just shoot through the windows!" I have two tiny bathrooms that have no locks on them (but most teachers don't have bathrooms in their rooms), and no closets with doors. My hallway doors actually do lock from the inside, but there is a window above the door handle on both doors. Break the glass (as this guy did) reach down and turn the doorknob and you're in my room in just a few seconds. I've covered my windows (for this very reason) with paper so no one can see in and they stay that way all year long every year.

During a lockdown drill, I've trained my students as the school district instructed me to do. Get on the floor, under your desk, get very quiet, no laughing or talking. Then I shut the lights off and stand at the front of the room monitoring the situation, until the all clear is given. Yes, I just stand there. The wall behind me is cinder block with about 100 years of paint on them, so I don't have to worry about that, thankfully. With my back to the wall, I can turn my head left and right to monitor my hallway doors with are on the same wall facing the windows. The principal and whoever else comes by, checks my doors to make sure they're locked, then after about 5 minutes drill is over. I feel this is woefully inadequate protecting. It's more concealment and subterfuge than cover, if you will.

Now, if it were up to me, and I will do this should the need arise, I would cram 10 kids in each bathroom (at the moment, I have 20 children) and tell them that the bad guys are outside - do not open the doors until the good guys come. But, this leaves the question: what the <del><del><del><del>****</del></del></del></del> do I do while this is happening? Keep the kids quiet, yes. Protect them at all costs, yes. But, how?

I can't help but think if I had a gun either on my person or locked in my desk readily available, I would be much more prepared if the gunman forced his way into my room. Yes, I could jump him and fight with him, hopefully for quite awhile until the cops could finally make it to my school (average time for the police to arrive, from what I understand, is just under 8 minutes.) But, with my room so close to the front of the school, I would MUCH rather just shoot him as he entered my room since, A) I have the drop on him as I can stand to the side and he wouldn't see me, and B) I take the chance that during the fight, he can shoot me, injure me, or knock me out.

We have school resource officers. At the high school and junior high. Both of which are a minimum of 5 minutes away. Given time to run to their cars, race to our school (or any school in district) call for backup and avoid heavier traffic than we're used to, we're talking 8-10 minutes minimum. A lot of damage can be done in 10 minutes.

Now, this isn't even bringing up OTHER situations like my school is nearly 80% free and reduced with a majority of these students' parents being in prison, or having been in prison, gang members and generally nasty people. I've been threatened on more than one occasion by fathers and mothers who feel that I should give their children more than they have earned. Add to it that when I was married, my wife worked at the DA's office in the bogus check division and there were MANY times we had to leave a restaurant or place of business/activity because someone was there that had threatened her. Yes, sometimes, I feel less than safe in my work environment, let alone in public, so I have begun the process of CC. I actually just need to get my permit and I'll be golden. For the first time in over 20 years, there is a handgun in my house where I can get to it just in case.

Granted, I've had training in the handling of firearms over the years. I grew up shooting, and I would require a TON more training in this situation. Harsher gun laws? Why? Are the legal gun owners causing these problems? No. And it doesn't matter to someone planning on shooting up anything - they'll find weapons somewhere, somehow. All I know is I'm the last defense these kids have in a situation like this and I don't have the resources I need to protect them.

tl;dr: I want CC in schools for teachers - not just principals. Read above for reasons why.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:54 PM #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vikingshadow View Post
Back on topic:

As a 2nd grade teacher, I'm horrified at this. My heart aches and it's absolutely terrifying. Friday, I just looked at my students, and although they can be major pains in the <del><del><del><del>*****</del></del></del></del> sometimes, they are ALL loving, gentle, kind souls that would do anything for an adult and so willing to love just about everone. As a teacher, it doesn't surprise me one bit that these teachers protected their students as they did. Non-teachers don't realize that when you spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for months on end with this kids - laughing, joking, playing, teasing, and yes, chastising at times these young, open, loving minds (younger children) they become every bit as important to you as your own children. I would hope I would do the same to protect my students, but of course, God forbid, I'll never know unless it happens.

Controversy time: What I do know is that I wish I COULD carry at school. Yes, I know most non-teachers are going to gasp and say, "OMG! How can you say that?!!! You teach KIDS! Shame on you!" But let me tell you how lockdown works at my school.

First of all, for background. I live in a town of about 20,000 COUNTED citizens. What I mean is, that over the past 4 years, this town has grown so much due to the oil and natural gas boom that there are people actually living in tents at the state park just outside of town, people living in hastily made RV parks all around town, and trailer parks springing up all over the place. Last I heard, the actual count of people living in this town was closer to 35000 - 40000 but they aren't counted because they aren't "permanent". You can't find a house to rent in this town under 800/month, and there isn't an apartment available since the companies are renting them for their employees in the dozens at a time. Most of the people are here a few months, then move on, and none have an actual address/mailbox. Our "homeless" rate is climbing because of this. Most are great people just looking for jobs. Others, not so much.

Our school population has risen from around 1000 in 2005 to about 3000, and we've only built one additional school so far - an early childhood center made for about 700 people (adults and children) that now houses about 900 people. We've added additional classes to every grade level in every school just to keep our class sizes down, but we can't hire enough teachers to cover in some areas.

Over the last 3 years, we've had 4 actual lockdowns - not practices. Fortunately, two were not because of actual shooters, one was because of an escaped prisoner from the prison, and one was because of a man shooting his wife just a few blocks away.

Now, I teach in a room that is the second one down the hall from the front doors. The office is right beside the front doors. One of my walls is covered with about 90% windows. Every year, the students say, "What if the shooter is outside? They'll just shoot through the windows!" I have two tiny bathrooms that have no locks on them (but most teachers don't have bathrooms in their rooms), and no closets with doors. My hallway doors actually do lock from the inside, but there is a window above the door handle on both doors. Break the glass (as this guy did) reach down and turn the doorknob and you're in my room in just a few seconds. I've covered my windows (for this very reason) with paper so no one can see in and they stay that way all year long every year.

During a lockdown drill, I've trained my students as the school district instructed me to do. Get on the floor, under your desk, get very quiet, no laughing or talking. Then I shut the lights off and stand at the front of the room monitoring the situation, until the all clear is given. Yes, I just stand there. The wall behind me is cinder block with about 100 years of paint on them, so I don't have to worry about that, thankfully. With my back to the wall, I can turn my head left and right to monitor my hallway doors with are on the same wall facing the windows. The principal and whoever else comes by, checks my doors to make sure they're locked, then after about 5 minutes drill is over. I feel this is woefully inadequate protecting. It's more concealment and subterfuge than cover, if you will.

Now, if it were up to me, and I will do this should the need arise, I would cram 10 kids in each bathroom (at the moment, I have 20 children) and tell them that the bad guys are outside - do not open the doors until the good guys come. But, this leaves the question: what the <del><del><del><del>****</del></del></del></del> do I do while this is happening? Keep the kids quiet, yes. Protect them at all costs, yes. But, how?

I can't help but think if I had a gun either on my person or locked in my desk readily available, I would be much more prepared if the gunman forced his way into my room. Yes, I could jump him and fight with him, hopefully for quite awhile until the cops could finally make it to my school (average time for the police to arrive, from what I understand, is just under 8 minutes.) But, with my room so close to the front of the school, I would MUCH rather just shoot him as he entered my room since, A) I have the drop on him as I can stand to the side and he wouldn't see me, and B) I take the chance that during the fight, he can shoot me, injure me, or knock me out.

We have school resource officers. At the high school and junior high. Both of which are a minimum of 5 minutes away. Given time to run to their cars, race to our school (or any school in district) call for backup and avoid heavier traffic than we're used to, we're talking 8-10 minutes minimum. A lot of damage can be done in 10 minutes.

Now, this isn't even bringing up OTHER situations like my school is nearly 80% free and reduced with a majority of these students' parents being in prison, or having been in prison, gang members and generally nasty people. I've been threatened on more than one occasion by fathers and mothers who feel that I should give their children more than they have earned. Add to it that when I was married, my wife worked at the DA's office in the bogus check division and there were MANY times we had to leave a restaurant or place of business/activity because someone was there that had threatened her. Yes, sometimes, I feel less than safe in my work environment, let alone in public, so I have begun the process of CC. I actually just need to get my permit and I'll be golden. For the first time in over 20 years, there is a handgun in my house where I can get to it just in case.

Granted, I've had training in the handling of firearms over the years. I grew up shooting, and I would require a TON more training in this situation. Harsher gun laws? Why? Are the legal gun owners causing these problems? No. And it doesn't matter to someone planning on shooting up anything - they'll find weapons somewhere, somehow. All I know is I'm the last defense these kids have in a situation like this and I don't have the resources I need to protect them.

tl;dr: I want CC in schools for teachers - not just principals. Read above for reasons why.
You're 1 in a million, most of the public teachers I knew were just awful, pathetic excuses for human beings.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:35 PM #214
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You're 1 in a million, most of the public teachers I knew were just awful, pathetic excuses for human beings.
I'll admit I had bad teachers that hated their students, but don't be stupid.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:44 PM #215
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what's the point in telling someone who is stupid not to be stupid? He can't help it.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:06 PM #216
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Well, most of them are. Look at the people who graduate with " Education" degrees, they're retarded and lack common sense for the most part.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:10 PM #217
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There are some teachers I think would do fine carrying a gun in class, and there are other teachers I've had which I would NEVER want to have a gun.

The problem I have is let's say we make it so that every teacher has a gun, doesn't this just change how a mentally unstable would-be shooter would plan their attack?

Do we then try to just upgrade classrooms to become harder to break into? Do we add more guards to every school? I'm not opposed to these ideas, but in every case I can think of in my brain, there's always a hypothetical in which someone can bypass these obstacles.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:40 PM #218
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You're 1 in a million, most of the public teachers I knew were just awful, pathetic excuses for human beings.
This
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:39 PM #219
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_2311009.html

Very good read.

How about we rethink how we deal with mental illnesses, instead of going after guns?
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:43 PM #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford View Post
There are some teachers I think would do fine carrying a gun in class, and there are other teachers I've had which I would NEVER want to have a gun.

The problem I have is let's say we make it so that every teacher has a gun, doesn't this just change how a mentally unstable would-be shooter would plan their attack?
We call them 'mentally unstable', yet the shooters always happen to choose a place where society has deemed normal citizenry is not allowed to carry firearms...coincidence? Hardly. I say let's stop making the planning so damned simple for them.

These people are cowards; they are looking for the path of least resistance. That's why they choose 'gun-free' zones.
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:14 PM #221
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These people are cowards; they are looking for the path of least resistance. That's why they choose 'gun-free' zones.
I think you're trying to explain crazy much more simply than you really can. When we're talking 'cowards' I'm assuming we're really talking about the people who go nuts and shoot a bunch of people. If we're talking people who go nuts and shoot people, you're forgetting about all the nuts who end up in a standoff with police, or incidents like the north hollywood bank robbery, or Nidal Hassan.

The point is someone who wants to do harm, is going to do harm. Let's say you make every movie theatre, bar, school, and government building concealed carry friendly, You're not eliminating the threat, you're simply changing how someone strikes...maybe. Suggesting that gun-free zones are the cause of these shootings is the same as saying it's lax gun laws that are causing it, there's no real way to tie one to the other. I would suggest it's something else entirely.
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:19 PM #222
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Wise words of Morgan Freedman...

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why. It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem."
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:27 PM #223
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schools just need to keep their doors locked during the day. there is no need for people to be leaving during the day....thats how it was at our school.

once 815 hit, the school doors were locked
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:23 PM #224
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Wise words of Morgan Freedman...
I don't think he actually said that.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:47 PM #225
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I think Jack said it better:


We've all got the blood on our hands. We crave these sort of news stories, and if Hell's what we want, then Hell's what we'll have. Yes, these psychopaths are deranged and at fault for each individual incident. But something is seriously wrong with our culture that creates these monsters in such prevalent numbers.

If you are of the belief that we need to stop the people, not the guns/tools, then I'll go with you on that. But typically, these are the same people who push to defund mental health programs, public schools in poor areas, extra curricular activities/clubs, and regulatory bodies meant to pick up on these sort of people. We all want to do something to stop these things from occurring, and if we can't increase preventative related funding or gun control, then what can we do? Arm EVERYBODY? There are a lot of unstable people out there who shouldn't have the ability to take life with the squeeze of a trigger in a moment of blinding rage/depression. We all go through moments of temporary insanity throughout our lives. At least a knife forces you to get up close and personal with every blow. And usually if a knife is used, it's because they didn't have a gun readily available. We probably shouldn't make things any easier to enable these acts.

And as far as arming teachers specifically, shut up. You're an idiot if you think this wouldn't lead to acts of neglect or cases of being overpowered by a student(s). Armed security guards is one thing, but untrained and constantly stressed/challenged teachers? C'mon, man!
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:49 PM #226
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I don't think he actually said that.
even if he didnt, whoever said it has very valid points.
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:24 PM #227
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Back on topic:


First of all, for background. I live in a town of about 20,000 COUNTED citizens. What I mean is, that over the past 4 years, this town has grown so much due to the oil and natural gas boom that there are people actually living in tents at the state park just outside of town, people living in hastily made RV parks all around town, and trailer parks springing up all over the place. Last I heard, the actual count of people living in this town was closer to 35000 - 40000 but they aren't counted because they aren't "permanent". You can't find a house to rent in this town under 800/month, and there isn't an apartment available since the companies are renting them for their employees in the dozens at a time.
Williston, North Dakota?

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what a surprise blake360 ruins another thread
This is coming from someone who's been banned multiple times for trolling and racism. Surprised you haven't claimed that this shooting was race related somehow considering how you incite race into almost every topic you see an opportunity.
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:31 PM #228
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even if he didnt, whoever said it has very valid points.
Yea, I feel ya. I was just pointing that out.I think it ended up being a thing were someone said morgan freeman said it to get some views.
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:45 PM #229
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Good mental health related article

http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother

As someone who works with people on a daily basis who have mental health needs, I offer sincere praise for this mother. I talk to a lot of parents of adults (22-56) with mental health needs, and the ones who care the most are the ones who don't cover for or enable their kids, and take their threats seriously. It hurts the parents, but left unhabilitated or treated, almost any mentally sick person can be the next to make headline news. We as a society need to give serious attention to the mental health issue, and reform our culture appropriately.
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:01 PM #230
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_2311009.html

Very good read.

How about we rethink how we deal with mental illnesses, instead of going after guns?
Quote:
Originally Posted by spracks21 View Post
http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother

As someone who works with people on a daily basis who have mental health needs, I offer sincere praise for this mother. I talk to a lot of parents of adults (22-56) with mental health needs, and the ones who care the most are the ones who don't cover for or enable their kids, and take their threats seriously. It hurts the parents, but left unhabilitated or treated, almost any mentally sick person can be the next to make headline news. We as a society need to give serious attention to the mental health issue, and reform our culture appropriately.

Already posted that, *** monkey.

Jk, it really is an eye opening read, everyone should read it fasho.
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:55 PM #231
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Originally Posted by vikingshadow View Post
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As a 2nd grade teacher, I'm horrified at this. My heart aches and it's absolutely terrifying. Friday, I just looked at my students, and although they can be major pains in the <del><del><del><del>*****</del></del></del></del> sometimes, they are ALL loving, gentle, kind souls that would do anything for an adult and so willing to love just about everone. As a teacher, it doesn't surprise me one bit that these teachers protected their students as they did. Non-teachers don't realize that when you spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for months on end with this kids - laughing, joking, playing, teasing, and yes, chastising at times these young, open, loving minds (younger children) they become every bit as important to you as your own children. I would hope I would do the same to protect my students, but of course, God forbid, I'll never know unless it happens.

Controversy time: What I do know is that I wish I COULD carry at school. Yes, I know most non-teachers are going to gasp and say, "OMG! How can you say that?!!! You teach KIDS! Shame on you!" But let me tell you how lockdown works at my school.

First of all, for background. I live in a town of about 20,000 COUNTED citizens. What I mean is, that over the past 4 years, this town has grown so much due to the oil and natural gas boom that there are people actually living in tents at the state park just outside of town, people living in hastily made RV parks all around town, and trailer parks springing up all over the place. Last I heard, the actual count of people living in this town was closer to 35000 - 40000 but they aren't counted because they aren't "permanent". You can't find a house to rent in this town under 800/month, and there isn't an apartment available since the companies are renting them for their employees in the dozens at a time. Most of the people are here a few months, then move on, and none have an actual address/mailbox. Our "homeless" rate is climbing because of this. Most are great people just looking for jobs. Others, not so much.

Our school population has risen from around 1000 in 2005 to about 3000, and we've only built one additional school so far - an early childhood center made for about 700 people (adults and children) that now houses about 900 people. We've added additional classes to every grade level in every school just to keep our class sizes down, but we can't hire enough teachers to cover in some areas.

Over the last 3 years, we've had 4 actual lockdowns - not practices. Fortunately, two were not because of actual shooters, one was because of an escaped prisoner from the prison, and one was because of a man shooting his wife just a few blocks away.

Now, I teach in a room that is the second one down the hall from the front doors. The office is right beside the front doors. One of my walls is covered with about 90% windows. Every year, the students say, "What if the shooter is outside? They'll just shoot through the windows!" I have two tiny bathrooms that have no locks on them (but most teachers don't have bathrooms in their rooms), and no closets with doors. My hallway doors actually do lock from the inside, but there is a window above the door handle on both doors. Break the glass (as this guy did) reach down and turn the doorknob and you're in my room in just a few seconds. I've covered my windows (for this very reason) with paper so no one can see in and they stay that way all year long every year.

During a lockdown drill, I've trained my students as the school district instructed me to do. Get on the floor, under your desk, get very quiet, no laughing or talking. Then I shut the lights off and stand at the front of the room monitoring the situation, until the all clear is given. Yes, I just stand there. The wall behind me is cinder block with about 100 years of paint on them, so I don't have to worry about that, thankfully. With my back to the wall, I can turn my head left and right to monitor my hallway doors with are on the same wall facing the windows. The principal and whoever else comes by, checks my doors to make sure they're locked, then after about 5 minutes drill is over. I feel this is woefully inadequate protecting. It's more concealment and subterfuge than cover, if you will.

Now, if it were up to me, and I will do this should the need arise, I would cram 10 kids in each bathroom (at the moment, I have 20 children) and tell them that the bad guys are outside - do not open the doors until the good guys come. But, this leaves the question: what the <del><del><del><del>****</del></del></del></del> do I do while this is happening? Keep the kids quiet, yes. Protect them at all costs, yes. But, how?

I can't help but think if I had a gun either on my person or locked in my desk readily available, I would be much more prepared if the gunman forced his way into my room. Yes, I could jump him and fight with him, hopefully for quite awhile until the cops could finally make it to my school (average time for the police to arrive, from what I understand, is just under 8 minutes.) But, with my room so close to the front of the school, I would MUCH rather just shoot him as he entered my room since, A) I have the drop on him as I can stand to the side and he wouldn't see me, and B) I take the chance that during the fight, he can shoot me, injure me, or knock me out.

We have school resource officers. At the high school and junior high. Both of which are a minimum of 5 minutes away. Given time to run to their cars, race to our school (or any school in district) call for backup and avoid heavier traffic than we're used to, we're talking 8-10 minutes minimum. A lot of damage can be done in 10 minutes.

Now, this isn't even bringing up OTHER situations like my school is nearly 80% free and reduced with a majority of these students' parents being in prison, or having been in prison, gang members and generally nasty people. I've been threatened on more than one occasion by fathers and mothers who feel that I should give their children more than they have earned. Add to it that when I was married, my wife worked at the DA's office in the bogus check division and there were MANY times we had to leave a restaurant or place of business/activity because someone was there that had threatened her. Yes, sometimes, I feel less than safe in my work environment, let alone in public, so I have begun the process of CC. I actually just need to get my permit and I'll be golden. For the first time in over 20 years, there is a handgun in my house where I can get to it just in case.

Granted, I've had training in the handling of firearms over the years. I grew up shooting, and I would require a TON more training in this situation. Harsher gun laws? Why? Are the legal gun owners causing these problems? No. And it doesn't matter to someone planning on shooting up anything - they'll find weapons somewhere, somehow. All I know is I'm the last defense these kids have in a situation like this and I don't have the resources I need to protect them.

tl;dr: I want CC in schools for teachers - not just principals. Read above for reasons why.
Couldn't agree more, I'm currently in college where we can get fined $250 for for having a water gun, cap-gun, etc. (California...self explanatory) just so that they don't have to deal with the legal ramifications of a student/faculty involved shooting. You would think that the mass shooting at Virginia Tech would open their eyes, but unfortunately common sense doesn't seem to travel 3000 miles for too many people especially those in power when making legislation (ie: Dianne Feinstein)
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