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Old 06-11-2013, 01:44 PM #1
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Vaccines good or bad?

I know there was a conspiracy theory thread about vaccines that was closed recently. It's still an interesting topic though.

I know many of you guys are (or will soon become) parents and the debate about whether or not to vaccinate is fairly hot in the parenting circles. It can get pretty heated, as there voices were raised in one of our birthing classes.

So how do you guys feel about vaccinations? Are they useful overall? Is it better to stick with the natural options?
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:00 PM #2
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I wasn't allowed to enroll my son in school until I could show proof of vaccinations. I thought that was crap.
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:00 PM #3
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Get your vaccines. Give them to your child. There really isn't an arguement against them.

I'm not sure I could say enough bad things about the anti-vaccine crowd, but they rank right up there with flat-earthers, anti-evolution, and moon landing hoax people. If not worse, because they are actively endangering their child and others in addition to spreading misinformation
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:04 PM #4
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You know when ever I hear people talk crazy about how bad vaccinations are and they shouldn't take them I tell them to go talk to their grandparents about Polio...

Seriously people ***** and cry about the "risks" of vaccinations only because those very same vaccinations they are *****ing about have made the true horrors of helplessly watching polio or small pox ravage and kill their children a distant memory in our society.
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:05 PM #5
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Get your vaccines. Give them to your child. There really isn't an arguement against them.

I'm not sure I could say enough bad things about the anti-vaccine crowd, but they rank right up there with flat-earthers, anti-evolution, and moon landing hoax people. If not worse, because they are actively endangering their child and others in addition to spreading misinformation
QFT!!!
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:50 PM #6
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First you have to discuss which vaccine. Have a Masters Degree in Public Health and worked in health care for 40 years. An OLD parent.

Just yesterday an author of an article was on the news reporting that flu vaccines may not be all they are advertised to be. He questioned the studies that he felt were not designed properly and studys have not been done to determine if other methods of minimizing the risk of infection such as simple hand washing which he said was effective for Respiratory flu infection.. He only did a literature review and wrote his own article. He has done no research himself. Didn't offer how to design a controlled study to compare infection rates and cost benefit analysis for flu vaccines vs hand washing.

My first thought was trying to get kids at day care to wash there hands properly and not screaming and drooling all over the staff and other kids. Design a study for that. No, Common sense doesn't require a million dollar study. Give the kids and staff a flu shot....

Child immunization vaccines have been suspected as the cause for Austism. The kids get diagnosed about the same time they complete their childhood immunizations. People tried to connect those two dots. That particular issues has been thoroughly studied. Not caused by immunizations.

But it has become an urban myth that there is a risk of Autism with immunizations. It took a decade to do enough studies to be sure it wasn't connected.

Still, there are multiple theories about why the 'epidemic' of Autism. My wife and I are both occupational therapist. She worked in the public school system primarily with autistic kids and learning disabled. I worked in the school system many years ago.

Part of the 'epidemic' is due to a change in reporting and diagnosis. Let me tell you a fact. Autism did not exist as a diagnostic category when I graduated from school. Those same kids that would be diagnosed as Autistic now would have been diagnosed as childhood schizophrenia and more often simply mentally retarded and Behavior Disordered.

We saw the same types of kids. Same behaviors. Kids with obvious smarts in some areas but non verbal and developmentally delayed in other areas.

The neurosciences got better and the diagnosis of Autism became an official ICD-9 diagnosis. Yes there is a book with every diagnosis in it that is use for reporting incidence of disease. These kids were more or less replaced the childhood schizophrenia. Well, it changes with each new edition. Thanks to modern medicine.

Now we have the entire "spectrum" of Autistic Disorders. From near normal functioning Aspbergers Syndrome to the most severely involved children.

From a therapy point of view, they are a very challenging population to work with. Simply, like snowflakes, no two are alike. The abilities and deficits vary tremendously. I taught a kid to write the letters in his name in two weeks that the teachers have been working on for two years. I just GOT LUCKY. You could do hand over hand until you and he were blue in the face for months on end. Well, they proved what wouldn't work but that is what I and they were trained to do. It was hard to imagine this 7 year old signing the back of his paycheck in 10 years. Or being considered legally competent to manage his own affairs. So why does he NEED to write his name? Are we beating a dead horse here? Time to try something else. I just happened to have my hand on his back and as it slid down his back, he would mimic that motion with his pencil on his paper. Nah. Random stuff. Tried it again, he did it again. He did the first letter of his name while I wrote it on his back about 14 inch high and 12 inches wide. On a roll, went for the second letter. He wrote it. Two weeks later he would put his name on a paper. Autistic kids are just wired differently and each one is different. With them therapy is more ART than science. but the science is catching up.

One of the leading theorys of the 'cause' (s) is food additives. Being studied in great detail. Many parents are going to all natural foods and zero additives and preservatives in their childs diet. SOME see a dramatic change in behavior and diet. Some don't. So the research is pointing to a way to TREAT it more effectively. So parents connect the dots and have decided to eliminate preservatives and additives. while raising their child from infancy in order to 'prevent' autism. Well, if you can afford to do that fine. What harm could it be. So far no hard data but some supportive data. The best way to explain the data is something like food allergies. People have them. A lot of people have them. Lactose intolerance, peanuts make you go into respiratory arrest. Those are easy to diagnosis. What about all the other allergies that are harder to diagnosis. The mild ones. We all know about airbourne allergies. Our nose gets runny. sinus fills up. Your eye itch. Familiar. Now what makes you think those are the only organs in your body being affected by that allergin. Your whole body is allergic to it. Not just part of it. So there is a LOT of research with the Pet Scans and funcitional MRIs to study the affect of food allergins on our central nervous system.

I have allergies. Mold. Took Benedryl for two years. Over time, I became an ill tempered SOB. It affected my job, and darn near got me divorced. Well, I had a stressful job. So WHAT! Long story short I change medications and overnight I literally had a major personality change. Enough to concern the wife that I had started taking other drugs. I mellowed out over a few days. I still didn't get it. It is an over the counter med. Safe. I got a cold and took some of those old Benedryl. SOB over night. Then I connected the dots. Read the side affects on the bottle. ONE was central nervous system irritability. Stopped taking it. Life was good. Who would have thought an over the counter med could cause that kind of behavior and personality change.

So that is where the research is going. The treatment with diet is to put them on a very limited diets and introduce one food at a time about every two weeks while recording details symptoms being observed that period.

That should get you started. Have to run.
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:56 PM #7
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boom master, are you just a copypasta troll or something? jesus, learn how to write less. its more effective.
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Old 06-11-2013, 04:32 PM #8
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Vaccines... calculated risks.

Influenza vaccine? Near worthless.
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Old 06-11-2013, 04:39 PM #9
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Get your vaccines. Give them to your child. There really isn't an arguement against them.
Yes give them to your children, I'm sure nothing bad will happen.

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Old 06-11-2013, 05:11 PM #10
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I nearly died from the f'n measles when I was young. They got a vaccine for it now.The mmr vaccine. Don't givethere kids childhood vaccines? These parents should be nominated for a Darwin Award. Side note for Barrel roll. I saw this when researching herd Immunity. Thought you might find it interesting. http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasur...-immunity-and/
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:14 PM #11
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Yes give them to your children, I'm sure nothing bad will happen.


http://www.cdc.gov/H1n1flu/update.htm
Quote:
Since April 2009, CDC has received reports of 341 flu laboratory-confirmed pediatric deaths: 285 due to 2009 H1N1, 53 pediatric deaths that were laboratory confirmed as influenza A, but the flu virus subtype was not determined, and three pediatric deaths that were associated with seasonal influenza viruses. During the regular 2009-2010 influenza season (October to May), 276 pediatric deaths were reported to CDC. All but one were 2009 H1N1-related.
[sarcasm]Yeah better not give your kids an immunization. [/sarcasm] 276 confirmed deaths from H1N1 Vs. 1 teen getting paralyzed from the vaccine.

Seriously you are not give your kids a vaccine because you are worried they may be paralyzed even though by not giving them a vaccine they are 276 times more likely to die? That's fricken retarded. That almost as bad as the people who refuse to buckle their kids in car seats "in case the car catches fire and they get trapped" even though you are a million times more likely to get in an accident if you aren't wearing your seatbelt.
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Last edited by Lazarusrat : 06-11-2013 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 06-11-2013, 07:44 PM #12
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I nearly died from the f'n measles when I was young. They got a vaccine for it now.The mmr vaccine. Don't givethere kids childhood vaccines? These parents should be nominated for a Darwin Award. Side note for Barrel roll. I saw this when researching herd Immunity. Thought you might find it interesting. http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasur...-immunity-and/
That is pretty cool. Giving it to the kids, helps to keep the adults from getting sick, and a 80% herd immunity is essentially a 100% immunity. We're at 60% right now

I only base my influenza comment on what happened to me: consistently get sick when I get the vaccine, chance of not getting sick at all when I don't get it.

Also, I am the typhoid Mary that brought the swine flu to the east coast a few years back
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:23 PM #13
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To date, I've never recieved a flu shot. I've only had the flu twice... years ago when I was in my 20's. Maybe I'm lucky, I don't know. But no one's gonna convince me of getting one.

I've been vaccinated against a host of other things though, particularly by time I got into the Marines. They just gave me a crap-ton of different shots. I'm not sure against specifically what... asking would've gotten me reamed-out.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:43 PM #14
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Get the shingles vaccine PB. You DO NOT want to get shingles when you are older. It can really mess you up depending on where the flare up occurs.
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:54 PM #15
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How can you get a vaccine for a virus you already have?
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:56 PM #16
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I'm not against them, it's just the fact of giving yourself the virus to fight against the same virus is wierd to me. But, if you want to go to any public school/ college you have be up to date
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:14 PM #17
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If you even give 1/10 of a **** about your neighbors' children, let alone your own, get your kid vaccinated. All the vaccinations. It's not just your kid.

You have to be woefully misinformed and distrustful of scientific evidence and experts to even try to make an argument against vaccination (hi Blake). You can make the call about the flu shot, but please vaccinate your kids against the nasty stuff. Flu vaccinations are sometimes a crapshoot due to their tendancy towards mutation, but stable vaccines? No excuse. Even if a vaccine has potential side effects, they are nowhere near the danger of leaving the kids susceptible to the actual threat.

Seriously, there is no ****ing around with this one. If you don't do it, your child is a threat to all of us.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:34 PM #18
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If you even give 1/10 of a **** about your neighbors' children, let alone your own, get your kid vaccinated. All the vaccinations. It's not just your kid.

You have to be woefully misinformed and distrustful of scientific evidence and experts to even try to make an argument against vaccination (hi Blake). You can make the call about the flu shot, but please vaccinate your kids against the nasty stuff. Flu vaccinations are sometimes a crapshoot due to their tendancy towards mutation, but stable vaccines? No excuse. Even if a vaccine has potential side effects, they are nowhere near the danger of leaving the kids susceptible to the actual threat.

Seriously, there is no ****ing around with this one. If you don't do it, your child is a threat to all of us.

The gun hater is right, don't be a blake, get your kids vaccines.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:35 PM #19
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How can you get a vaccine for a virus you already have?
Most people get the Chicken Pox when they are younger, which gives them immunity against it in the future. However, that immunity wears off over time, leaving you at risk for getting it again when you are older (shingles). Shingles is potentially dangerous and very painful. So, doctors advise older people to get a booster to keep that immunity up.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:26 PM #20
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Isn't it funny how the only one time I got the flu vaccination was the only time I ever got the flu?
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:37 PM #21
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Pretty much sums up this thread.
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