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Old 11-05-2012, 02:47 PM #1
Mista Justin
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Stock phenom questions

I was thnking of buying a new phenom. Its hard to spend the $400, so I dont want to spend extra on the barrel. Is the stock barrel decent?

Also I have read on phenoms air efficiency, but they are using HPA, I use CO2. Can anyone translate the efficiency into CO2? How much in a 20oz?
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:57 PM #2
Rubbr Chickin
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Stock barrel is decent. A cheap alternative for great quality would be a JJ Ceramic barrel.

CO2 acts the same no matter what gun its in. Just because the Phenom is a spoolie and can run LPA doesnt mean your CO2 will be more efficient. CO2 is naturally inefficient.
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:48 PM #3
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The efficiency of CO2 is dependent on weather conditions. As the temperatures drop expect to get less shots per fill. That said if you go by pure volume CO2 can yield more shots than a similar sized HPA tank. Take a 20 oz CO2 tank vs a 48/3k HPA tank since they are roughly the same size. Using a 98 I can get around half a case off of the 20 oz tank where I can only get around 400 to 450 shots with the 48/3k tank.

I think Rubbr Chickin is confusing efficiency (air consumption) with consistency (variation of velocity between shots). Because CO2 is stored as a liquid and it expands into a gas it has more potential energy than a similar sized HPA tank. Take a 20 oz CO2 tank vs. a 48/3k HPA tank for example. On a 98 I can get about 1,000 shots per fill with a 20 oz tank. Using a 48/3k I can only get between 400 and 450 shots per fill. Another example is using a 9 oz CO2 tank. You can get at least 400 shots per fill with a tank of that size. Now compare the size of a 9 oz CO2 tank to the size of a 48/3k HPA tank. The 48/3k is roughly the same size as a 20 oz CO2 tank. If peek efficiency was my main concern CO2 would win hands down as you need a smaller tank to get more shots per fill. The air in a HPA tank is just compressed air and there is no liquid to expand into a gas. You need a larger tank to yield the same number of shots.

Now consistency is where HPA wins out. With CO2 you just have a pin valve and whatever pressure is in the tank is what comes out the valve. There is nothing to regulate it other than ambient temperature and how much liquid is still in the tank. With HPA the 3,000 to 4,500 PSI inside the tank passes through a regulator as it exits. The regulator brings the pressure down to a more usable pressure, usually between 450 PSI and 800 PSI depending on the regulator. Instead of one shot being 900 psi, the next being 400, and the next being 700 psi each shot is around 800 psi with a high pressure reg or 450 psi with a low pressure reg. Already your consistency has improved because you have a known pressure going into your gun.

The Phenom is a little different than a 98 since the velocity on the flex valve is controlled by an internal regulator similar to Automags. I don't know how many shots to expect to get on a Phenom with CO2, but I would be surprised if you got considerably less than half a case. I wouldn't expect to get around 1500 either.
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:02 PM #4
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I was saying that the CO2 usage wouldnt change just because its a Phenom. Output and usage will still be the same as if you were using a 98.

At least im sure it is, I dont think the internal regulator actually reduces what goes into the marker itsself.
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:27 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubbr Chickin View Post
I was saying that the CO2 usage wouldnt change just because its a Phenom.
Sure it will. It's a totally different valve setup than the others.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:16 PM #6
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The internal regulator reduces what goes through the valve, which is the main part of any marker's air system. If the regulator did nothing it would be a "Magic Box" and Tippmann would be using the FVA they have been for years. Instead the regulator does regulate the pressure and it is used to adjust the velocity similar to an Automag.
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:59 PM #7
Mista Justin
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So is the Phenom(with co2)more efficient than a 98 with CO2?
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:12 PM #8
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More than likely...I would suggest hpa tho.
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:46 PM #9
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Thanks for the input, but HPA is not an option(no where to fill and I already own a huge bottle with 80+ refills)
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Old 11-11-2012, 06:00 PM #10
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Don't pay $400 for a stock Phenom. Go on the B/S/T here and buy one for cheap. Save yourself some money.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:34 PM #11
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Lapco makes a really nice barrel, but stock will suffice
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:55 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mista Justin View Post
So is the Phenom(with co2)more efficient than a 98 with CO2?
Ofcourse its much more efficient.

<<The new FlexValve operates below 300 PSI for improved air efficiency allowing you to get over 1,400 shots from a 68 cubic inch 4500 psi tank>>

Dont know any 98 that can reach this number...
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