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Old 12-07-2012, 08:52 AM #22
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Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
Okay uh, give examples for the past month. We don't even vote on a treaty every day so I have no idea what the hell you are thinking about.
Hyperbole.

There are plenty of example of the US being a signatory on a bill only to vote it down later. Look up the CTBT and FMCT like I said.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:01 AM #23
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Originally Posted by benji25 View Post
You realize we are not the only country on the planet right? Just because it won't change our laws does not mean it won't effect how developing countries govern. The fact that you are saying "it doesn't effect us, but effects other countries" and are using that as your argument makes it seem like you are trying to impose our ideals on other countries just because they our ideals.

I hate to break it to you but we don't do everything right. Would I vote for the treaty? Probably. But to make it seem like this treaty is in the best interest for other countries just because "America did it" is a very conceited worldview.
That would be a reason for THEM to not ratify it. For US to not ratify it pure idiocy, as evidenced by the reason we didn't ratify it.

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Originally Posted by F1VENOM View Post
Hyperbole.

There are plenty of example of the US being a signatory on a bill only to vote it down later. Look up the CTBT and FMCT like I said.
Yeah hyperbole to the point of being completely inapplicable. Binding treaties on nuclear weapons -- which we want to keep and do our thing with -- is a far, far different thing than advistory treaties on disabled rights -- which we already grant our citizens.

I mean what the **** are we talking about here? Supporting the disabled! This is NOT a controversial issue in ANY way and what we did was just absolutely asinine.
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Last edited by drgonzo : 12-07-2012 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:03 AM #24
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So if it doesn't fit your Republican hate narrative it's not based in reality.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:08 AM #25
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Gonzo,

We have never respected the UN. This time it's hilarious because it's regarding the disabled and is mostly symbolic "legislation" anyway. True republicans voted it down out of seemingly knee-jerk dislike of the UN, but it's hardly surprising or unprecedented.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:09 AM #26
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If we already have laws reflecting this... why do we need to sign a treaty?
Because silly internationalists believe the US needs to be held accountable to foreign bodies.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:11 AM #27
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Because silly internationalists believe the US needs to be held accountable to foreign bodies.
I'm not sure that's it. From what I understand this treaty has no bite - read: no accountability measures.

We use the 'moral high ground' argument for military action so often it is hypocritical to not participate in something like this.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:12 AM #28
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gonzo talks about this issue like the Republicans repealed all legislation that protected disabled people. He's like a teenage girl that just missed out on Justin Beiber tickets.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:18 AM #29
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I'm not sure that's it. From what I understand this treaty has no bite - read: no accountability measures.

We use the 'moral high ground' argument for military action so often it is hypocritical to not participate in something like this.
It (morality) is a thin veiled argument for (military) action which is presumed to be in favor of some US interest.I can understand that, but what interest does this treaty serve for a nation which has a most comprehensive system for the disabled?

I do believe there was a portion of democrats who voted against the bill as well. I do not know the number.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:23 AM #30
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Originally Posted by Umami View Post
Gonzo,

We have never respected the UN. This time it's hilarious because it's regarding the disabled and is mostly symbolic "legislation" anyway. True republicans voted it down out of seemingly knee-jerk dislike of the UN, but it's hardly surprising or unprecedented.
Do you know of a precedent with similar optics?
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:28 AM #31
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
It (morality) is a thin veiled argument for (military) action which is presumed to be in favor of some US interest.I can understand that, but what interest does this treaty serve for a nation which has a most comprehensive system for the disabled?
It's symbolic. As the treaty is nearly a direct reflection of US law, it would have simply demonstrated that we are actually interested in being the international leaders that we (or should I say Republicans) so often claim us to be.

And it was only republicans who voted against it.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:34 AM #32
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It's symbolic. As the treaty is nearly a direct reflection of US law, it would have simply demonstrated that we are actually interested in being the international leaders that we (or should I say Republicans) so often claim us to be.

And it was only republicans who voted against it.
So I return to my original point, silly internationalists. We all know the Republicans do not want to be international leaders, they are more interested in American global hedgemony.

I heard a number thrown out for the number of democrats who voted against it yesterday morning on the radio in the car of the gentleman I car pool with. I had assumed it was accurate.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:54 AM #33
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
I heard a number thrown out for the number of democrats who voted against it yesterday morning on the radio in the car of the gentleman I car pool with. I had assumed it was accurate.
What does this mean, given that number is 0?
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:57 AM #34
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What does this mean, given that number is 0?
He is saying he heard it reported on the radio so he believed there were only to find out there were not.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:06 AM #35
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Originally Posted by Animal_Mother
This treaty was a waste of time and I'm glad it didn't go through. The vast majority of disabled people in this country are properly taken care of, along with the vast majority of disabled people in countries that someone would want to study abroad in. As far as the UN goes, they can **** themselves and I want my country to have nothing to do with such a haphazard and *** backwards organization.
As someone who has been to another country to observe and compare treatment of persons with disabilities I can comfortably say that you have absolutely no idea what in the hell you are talking about.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:07 AM #36
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What does this mean, given that number is 0?
That the radio station he listens to provided inaccurate information. I haven't seen the vote myself so I will take yours and Umami's word for it.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:15 AM #37
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As someone who has been to another country to observe and compare treatment of persons with disabilities I can comfortably say that you have absolutely no idea what in the hell you are talking about.
Which country are you referring to? I've been to plenty of other countries that took care of their disabled people without signing some nonsensical treaty. And either way, say the US signs this treaty. What happens if another country doesn't do things the way we do? Do we impose sanctions? Invade them?


EDIT correction: Most of the other countries I have been to have signed the treaty, whether the signing was before or after I was there I don't know.

Last edited by Animal_Mother : 12-07-2012 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:56 AM #38
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Define "disabled" for me. I seem to see a plethora of disabled people walking around just fine spending my money.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:11 AM #39
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If it's only unaccountable and has no power, then it sounds like a waste of time and effort.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:20 AM #40
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If it's only unaccountable and has no power, then it sounds like a waste of time and effort.
Yes, but appearances are very important to people. Hence the outrage.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:20 AM #41
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Plus I would prefer we lead by example, like we are, than to sign a piece of paper saying something.

Much better to walk the walk than talk the talk. we have the walking down. No need for the talking.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:32 AM #42
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Plus I would prefer we lead by example, like we are, than to sign a piece of paper saying something.

Much better to walk the walk than talk the talk. we have the walking down. No need for the talking.
That's what's so damn embarrassing about this whole thing! Walking is supposed to be HARDER than talking! This treaty is closely based on our own policies for equality for those with disabilities, yet we can't even say that it's a good thing because our congress has members that simply won't do anything cooperative with the UN. Period. This should have been the easiest thing to sign this year, and we still can't manage to convince some of our lawmakers that we're not alone in the world. It's shameful, plain and simple.
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