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Old 12-11-2012, 12:52 PM #1
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Reality Has a Progressive Bias

I don't understand this conclusion. If this statement were true, surely, the basic tenets of progressivism would be the default for human society. Yet, there is no historical precedent supporting this.

Bonus points if you can back up progressive ideology with scientific knowledge.

Leave your rhetorical arguments and sophistry at the door, please.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:04 PM #2
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The point of this quote was to show that the left in the U.S. lives in reality while the right lives in an epistemic bubble.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:17 PM #3
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Originally Posted by licence2kill View Post
The point of this quote was to show that the left in the U.S. lives in reality while the right lives in an epistemic bubble.
You are certain of this?
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:30 PM #4
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Originally Posted by Tafari Makonnen View Post
You are certain of this?
That's at least my understanding of it. Liberal ideology has a progressive bias because there worldview is more rooted in reality. A perfect example was the ignorance of proper polling and prominent conservatives thinking Romney would win big (when every bit of evidence said the contrary). The same can be seen by the absurd predictions by the conservative posters in this forum. I never understood this to be a normative judgement of liberal ideology, but rather a positive one.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:45 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by licence2kill View Post
The point of this quote was to show that the left in the U.S. lives in reality while the right lives in an epistemic bubble.
I've heard the claim made before this most recent occurrence.

So, the intent isn't to show that progressive ideology is backed by reality, but that progressives are less likely to distort or ignore data - statistical/scientific - than their conservative counter part.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:54 PM #6
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I believe that claim to be fundamentally accurate. In fact, the majority of people, regardless of political affiliation, choose to ignore scientific data and generate baseless opinions. To claim that right leaning individuals are more prone to such behavior is stupid at best.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:59 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by licence2kill View Post
The point of this quote was to show that the left in the U.S. lives in reality while the right lives in an epistemic bubble.
And I quit.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:02 PM #8
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Well if the war on Nate Silver didn't convince you of this then nothing will I suppose. Enjoy the bubble.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:03 PM #9
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War on Mr Silver was conducted by the sisters of your ideology. If that is a hard pill to swallow, welcome to adulthood.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:08 PM #10
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This isn't about the Right wing. I specifically asked for a defense of the claim that reality has a progressive bias. If you are one who believes this, you should be able to prove it without mention of the Right or Conservatism.

If, the intent of the quote is as described in my last post, then please say so. As it stands, progressives living in reality and "reality has a progressive bias" are two different statements.

Last edited by Iamamartianchurch : 12-11-2012 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:10 PM #11
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Originally Posted by barrel roll View Post
War on Mr Silver was conducted by the sisters of your ideology.
only if you ignore the difference between true and false, or being right and being wrong. it's not the same thing no matter how much the right would like to believe it ... making **** up is not equivalent to strongly supporting reality-based policies.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:14 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
I don't understand this conclusion. If this statement were true, surely, the basic tenets of progressivism would be the default for human society. Yet, there is no historical precedent supporting this.

Bonus points if you can back up progressive ideology with scientific knowledge.

Leave your rhetorical arguments and sophistry at the door, please.
I don't know that progressives in general are better at accepting the reality of a situation, so much as some who identify as Republicans are bad at it. Because this is a two-party culture, that inherently means "reality has a liberal bias" to a lot of people.

One suggestion within the realm of Psychology is (interestingly enough) an entitlement attitude among conservatives. When people begin to believe too strongly in how they believe world should look and what they deserve from it, they begin to loose sight of what it actually is.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:18 PM #13
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Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
only if you ignore the difference between true and false, or being right and being wrong. it's not the same thing no matter how much the right would like to believe it ... making **** up is not equivalent to strongly supporting reality-based policies.
Your argument in favor of progressivism is essentially:

1) Y will solve X.
2) X did occur.
3) Because X occured, Y is a valid solution.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:21 PM #14
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Originally Posted by Umami View Post
I don't know that progressives in general are better at accepting the reality of a situation, so much as some who identify as Republicans are bad at it. Because this is a two-party culture, that inherently means "reality has a liberal bias" to a lot of people.

One suggestion within the realm of Psychology is (interestingly enough) an entitlement attitude among conservatives. When people begin to believe too strongly in how they believe world should look and what they deserve from it, they begin to loose sight of what it actually is.
Well, the phrase "Reality has a progressive bias" implies something objective outside of our subjective interpretation. At least this is the way I understand it.

It seems to me that you guys interpret the meaning of the phrase differently than I.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:30 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Your argument in favor of progressivism is essentially:

1) Y will solve X.
2) X did occur.
3) Because X occured, Y is a valid solution.
How can you see a problem with that reasoning? It is so sound!
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:35 PM #16
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Well, the phrase "Reality has a progressive bias" implies something objective outside of our subjective interpretation. At least this is the way I understand it.
I'm not sure I see the perceived implication.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:42 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tafari Makonnen View Post
I believe that claim to be fundamentally accurate. In fact, the majority of people, regardless of political affiliation, choose to ignore scientific data and generate baseless opinions. To claim that right leaning individuals are more prone to such behavior is stupid at best.
I don't think they're doing a fair comparison. They're comparing left leaning to far right.

Both far left and far right tend to speak in coded dogma. These individuals tend to ignore something they don't want to hear even if it's true. They're like broken clocks. They always say the same thing and are right twice a day. There is no space to reason with them.

Progressives and moderate conservatives can both be reasoned with and should not be lumped in with the pawns of the political spectrum.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:54 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umami View Post
I'm not sure I see the perceived implication.
See if this helps:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
"progressives living in reality" and "reality has a progressive bias" are two different statements.
Living in reality should be taken to mean the use or acceptence of fact(s).
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:04 PM #19
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For a little background, the sentiment comes from a joke - probably at the expense of Fox News. Certainly at the expense of G.W. Bush.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Colbert
Now, I know there are some polls out there saying this man has a 32 percent approval rating. But guys like us, we don't pay attention to the polls. We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in reality. And reality has a well-known liberal bias ... Sir, pay no attention to the people who say the glass is half empty, [...] because 32 percent means it's two-thirds empty. There's still some liquid in that glass, is my point. But I wouldn't drink it. The last third is usually backwash.
I believe the intent of that statement was not that "reality has a liberal bias" so much as some groups of conservatives tend to delude themselves. Satire and all that.
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Last edited by Umami : 12-11-2012 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:23 PM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umami View Post
For a little background, the sentiment comes from a joke - probably at the expense of Fox News. Certainly at the expense of G.W. Bush.

I believe the intent of that statement was not that "reality has a liberal bias" so much as some groups of conservatives tend to delude themselves. Satire and all that.
Yeah, but I think we are talking about this gem:

Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
While MSNBC has progressive-oriented opinion, it is a real news channel unlike Fox News. So from that standpoint, no, it is not any kind of counterpart to Fox News.

It is not possible to do real, responsible journalism and have the slant Fox News does. Reality has a progressive bias. That's by design, modern progressivism is highly realistic, respects science, etc. and if you stake out a position diametrically opposing that, you have to be unrealistic, anti-science, etc.
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Last edited by Tafari Makonnen : 12-11-2012 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 12-11-2012, 03:50 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umami View Post
For a little background, the sentiment comes from a joke - probably at the expense of Fox News. Certainly at the expense of G.W. Bush.

I believe the intent of that statement was not that "reality has a liberal bias" so much as some groups of conservatives tend to delude themselves. Satire and all that.
Ah. Well I haven't heard it. Though it seems Gonzo takes the statement literally.
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