Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-13-2012, 11:07 PM #1
skeeter456
eats puss lik wonton soup
 
skeeter456's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: bendenfloggher
skeeter456 owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
ayee

Ok, so i was just reading a post about a MacDaddy Donalds (McDonald's) worker only makes $8.25 an hour after being there for 20 years, MacDaddy Donalds CEO makes $8.8mil. What would you think if our govt. capped the earnings of a establishment and after that they had to put the rest into their works?
skeeter456 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 12-13-2012, 11:19 PM #2
drgonzo
Half-cocked
 
drgonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter456 View Post
Ok, so i was just reading a post about a MacDaddy Donalds (McDonald's) worker only makes $8.25 an hour after being there for 20 years, MacDaddy Donalds CEO makes $8.8mil. What would you think if our govt. capped the earnings of a establishment and after that they had to put the rest into their works?
A hard cap seems like a no-no, but a high top marginal tax rate would be a good solution. Over 50% for starters.
__________________
PUMPPB.COM - Pump paintball forums
HawaiiPB.com - Paintball forums for the state of Hawaii
HawaiiPB/PumpPB - Our videos | Droidtiles.com - NFC Tags for Android and mobile devices
drgonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 11:25 PM #3
TheSilentAssassin
Words and Stuff
 
TheSilentAssassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
This will end will...

Income inequality is very bad among industrialized nations. We can either correct it by taxes (Sweden) or culture (Japan). I prefer culture, but, in our case, taxes will do. As Gonzo said, hard cap is bad; high marginal tax rate is preferable (especially considering most economists put us on the short side of the Laffer curve). Where those rates should fall is beyond my pay-grade.
__________________
“There are only two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don’t know it.” – G. K. Chesterton - The Mercy of Mr. Arnold Bennett, Fancies vs. Fads
TheSilentAssassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 11:43 PM #4
benji25
Legen (wait for it) Dary
 
benji25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Twin Cities
benji25 is a Moderator
benji25 is BST Trusted
benji25 donated to help Peyton Trent
benji25 is playing at Living Legends V
benji25 posts videos on PbNation
benji25 supports our troops
benji25 has perfected Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter456 View Post
Ok, so i was just reading a post about a MacDaddy Donalds (McDonald's) worker only makes $8.25 an hour after being there for 20 years, MacDaddy Donalds CEO makes $8.8mil. What would you think if our govt. capped the earnings of a establishment and after that they had to put the rest into their works?
I think it is absurd that he has worked there for 20 years and still makes minimum wage. Yes it isn't very skilled labor but you gain so many efficiencies from an employee being in the business for 20 years that they deserve more.

As far as your point goes, this is my problem with America today. The see something the don't like (how McD's chooses to spend its money/treat its employees.) and instead of doing something about it (starting your own company where earnings are distributed) people say "well why don't we just get the government involved so we can change this company to what I think it should be." If they have such a horrible company no one would work there. If your idea is a great way to run a company, pitch it to investors or try to get people behind it.

People need to get off of the idea that government is designed to be a "fix" for things we think are problems because it will eventually lead to the government running all of our companies, weather through incredibly strict policy or actually a state-owned company. Back in the day people didn't like their lives in Europe. Did they complain to the government to try and fix their problems? No. The ****ing said peace out we are going to do **** on our own.

Last edited by benji25 : 12-13-2012 at 11:46 PM.
benji25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 11:47 PM #5
Snake13
Escaped Rakkasan
 
Snake13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Boston
Snake13 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Quote:
Originally Posted by benji25 View Post
I think it is absurd that he has worked there for 20 years and still makes minimum wage. Yes it isn't very skilled labor but you gain so many efficiencies from an employee being in the business for 20 years that they deserve more.

As far as your point goes, this is my problem with America today. The see something the don't like (how McD's chooses to spend its money/treat its employees.) and instead of doing something about it (starting your own company where earnings are distributed) people say "well why don't we just get the government involved so we can change this company to what I think it should be."

People need to get off of this idea because it will eventually lead to the government running all of our companies, weather through incredibly strict policy or actually a state-owned company. Back in the day people didn't like their lives in Europe. Did they complain to the government to try and fix their problems? No. The ****ing said peace out we are going to do **** on our own.
Then the 19th century happened
Snake13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 11:57 PM #6
benji25
Legen (wait for it) Dary
 
benji25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Twin Cities
benji25 is a Moderator
benji25 is BST Trusted
benji25 donated to help Peyton Trent
benji25 is playing at Living Legends V
benji25 posts videos on PbNation
benji25 supports our troops
benji25 has perfected Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake13 View Post
Then the 19th century happened
Your point?
benji25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 11:59 PM #7
drgonzo
Half-cocked
 
drgonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Large vs small companies.
__________________
PUMPPB.COM - Pump paintball forums
HawaiiPB.com - Paintball forums for the state of Hawaii
HawaiiPB/PumpPB - Our videos | Droidtiles.com - NFC Tags for Android and mobile devices
drgonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 12:02 AM #8
benji25
Legen (wait for it) Dary
 
benji25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Twin Cities
benji25 is a Moderator
benji25 is BST Trusted
benji25 donated to help Peyton Trent
benji25 is playing at Living Legends V
benji25 posts videos on PbNation
benji25 supports our troops
benji25 has perfected Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
Large vs small companies.
I am still failing to see why you guys think the government should be the solution to fixing companies/certain other problems. Yes in certain circumstances and cases it MAY be the best course of action. But that would be very few cases. If these companies are doing illegal things that is one thing. But if all of these "terrible" companies are doing such horrible things why do people work there? Why do people shop there? If you have so many good ideas to "fix" these companies why is it the government's/tax payers job to implement them?

Also, there is a local bike shop here that I don't particularly care for. They are rude to their customers and quite frankly gouge people on prices. I think I am going to try and pass a bill that says companies can only charge 5% greater than what they buy supplies for. I think that seems totally logical.
benji25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 12:37 AM #9
licence2kill
POOP
 
licence2kill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Orange County
I'm with gonzo. If income distribution is undesirable, tax it. No need to meddle.
licence2kill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 01:19 AM #10
SniperForce-Duffek
Delta Farce
 
SniperForce-Duffek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
SniperForce-Duffek plays in the APPA D5 division
If people wanna set their sights on a ****ty place to work for the rest of their life, then that's the outcome they receive.
__________________
Kick *** military apparel _ Mars Strategic

"May god have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't."
G.S.P
SniperForce-Duffek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 02:27 AM #11
TheSilentAssassin
Words and Stuff
 
TheSilentAssassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by benji25 View Post
I am still failing to see why you guys think the government should be the solution to fixing companies/certain other problems.
If the government can solve a problem, why shouldn't they? Who is better sorted to solve problems of injustice (in this example, income inequality) than the representatives of the people?

You keep claiming that "government shouldn't be solving this problem", but you have yet to really say why. Do you believe it is due to ineptitude or some separation of power? Is your quip a moral one or an efficiency one?
__________________
“There are only two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don’t know it.” – G. K. Chesterton - The Mercy of Mr. Arnold Bennett, Fancies vs. Fads

Last edited by TheSilentAssassin : 12-14-2012 at 02:36 AM.
TheSilentAssassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 06:29 AM #12
scienceguy
 
 
scienceguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
 has been a member for 10 years
I'm curious as to why they never moved up from fries to assistant manager? That's where the big money starts coming in.

I consider myself more liberal than conservative, and i believe taxes should be increased for the ultra rich, loopholes closed etc. However, Those jobs should be for HS kids, not lifelong adult careers it's pretty obvious when you sign up. There are other jobs in food service that are careers. This person chose this life for whatever reason.
scienceguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 07:16 AM #13
barrel roll
secedere
 
barrel roll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL/GA border
barrel roll is one of the top 500 posters on PbNation
barrel roll is Legendary
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
If the government can solve a problem, why shouldn't they? Who is better sorted to solve problems of injustice (in this example, income inequality) than the representatives of the people?

You keep claiming that "government shouldn't be solving this problem", but you have yet to really say why. Do you believe it is due to ineptitude or some separation of power? Is your quip a moral one or an efficiency one?
In these united states, those powers are not enumerated.
__________________
--- UNDRPRVLGD Goggle Straps n stuff ---
If this be treason, make the most of it.-Patrick Henry
I'm a damn veteran, I've got more rights and privileges than you do.
MQ2 rebuild kits, MP4 ram rebuilds, general 'cocker teching
Will soon be making super slick mid/half block bolts
barrel roll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 07:33 AM #14
benji25
Legen (wait for it) Dary
 
benji25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Twin Cities
benji25 is a Moderator
benji25 is BST Trusted
benji25 donated to help Peyton Trent
benji25 is playing at Living Legends V
benji25 posts videos on PbNation
benji25 supports our troops
benji25 has perfected Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by scienceguy View Post
I'm curious as to why they never moved up from fries to assistant manager? That's where the big money starts coming in.

I consider myself more liberal than conservative, and i believe taxes should be increased for the ultra rich, loopholes closed etc. However, Those jobs should be for HS kids, not lifelong adult careers it's pretty obvious when you sign up. There are other jobs in food service that are careers. This person chose this life for whatever reason.
Because it is a waste of time. If a company is operating within the laws why should the government get involved simply because some people don't think they are doing business "the way they should"? zThey ***** to the government about it. Like I said, if they are doing illegal things that is a different story. BUt why increase government regulations when people are just simply upset with how they do business? Just don't work or shop there. That simple.
benji25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 09:43 AM #15
EPAPressure
Jobs are for immigrants
 
EPAPressure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA
So this guy is to be rewarded for not ever making manager? I could drive a dump truck through the hole in that story. Why is it he makes $8.25 after 20 years when most people make manager in 1/4 of that time? Does this guy have strikes against him? He doesn't sound like a very productive worker then, given how McDonalds isn't known for starving their workers in the pay scale.

So why should government swoop in and reward this man with his employers salary? His employer, the CEO, went to a business school and works 16 hour days of actual thought provoking work. There is a reason he makes $8.8 million a year and not $8.25 an hour. When you punish success people stop becoming successful, simple as that. Also, after 20 years, you couldn't have taken out a student loan and gone back to school or learned a trade? This employee doesn't exactly match the hard working criteria.
__________________
"Chic-Fi-La has an awful chicken sandwich"

-Said nobody, ever.


"Originally posted by drgonzo: That doesn't make sense, the people with the most interaction and dependence on government have the most significant stakes and should have the vote if anyone. People who reject government and do not use government services should be denied the vote if anything." ^^FAIL

"Originally posted by Rebeltilldeath3: When I think geocities I think ****ty tiled background and sparkly titles. Think of a minority's myspace page."
EPAPressure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 10:14 AM #16
barrel roll
secedere
 
barrel roll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL/GA border
barrel roll is one of the top 500 posters on PbNation
barrel roll is Legendary
woah woah woah... are you saying people are trying to influence behavior with punishment?
__________________
--- UNDRPRVLGD Goggle Straps n stuff ---
If this be treason, make the most of it.-Patrick Henry
I'm a damn veteran, I've got more rights and privileges than you do.
MQ2 rebuild kits, MP4 ram rebuilds, general 'cocker teching
Will soon be making super slick mid/half block bolts
barrel roll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 10:26 AM #17
EPAPressure
Jobs are for immigrants
 
EPAPressure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA
I can never tell if you're being sarcastic or not...
__________________
"Chic-Fi-La has an awful chicken sandwich"

-Said nobody, ever.


"Originally posted by drgonzo: That doesn't make sense, the people with the most interaction and dependence on government have the most significant stakes and should have the vote if anyone. People who reject government and do not use government services should be denied the vote if anything." ^^FAIL

"Originally posted by Rebeltilldeath3: When I think geocities I think ****ty tiled background and sparkly titles. Think of a minority's myspace page."
EPAPressure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 10:28 AM #18
benji25
Legen (wait for it) Dary
 
benji25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Twin Cities
benji25 is a Moderator
benji25 is BST Trusted
benji25 donated to help Peyton Trent
benji25 is playing at Living Legends V
benji25 posts videos on PbNation
benji25 supports our troops
benji25 has perfected Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
He definitely meant it sarcastically but I can't tell if he is poking fun at you or not.
benji25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 10:33 AM #19
EPAPressure
Jobs are for immigrants
 
EPAPressure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Atlanta, GA
Gotcha. Tony I'd like to hear what you actually meant though, always good insight. Do you think the CEO should have his wages cut and spread throughout his lower level employees salaries for doing minuscule tasks such as pressing buttons on a cash register? I mean I can salt my own fries and cook my own hamburgers and home, I don't "need" McDonalds for that. I can't however negotiate multi million dollar deals and balance spreadsheets for a Fortune 500 company like it's cool. The two jobs pay differently for very obvious reasons and I can't stand to see people make a contrast for "fair pay".
__________________
"Chic-Fi-La has an awful chicken sandwich"

-Said nobody, ever.


"Originally posted by drgonzo: That doesn't make sense, the people with the most interaction and dependence on government have the most significant stakes and should have the vote if anyone. People who reject government and do not use government services should be denied the vote if anything." ^^FAIL

"Originally posted by Rebeltilldeath3: When I think geocities I think ****ty tiled background and sparkly titles. Think of a minority's myspace page."
EPAPressure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 10:58 AM #20
barrel roll
secedere
 
barrel roll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: FL/GA border
barrel roll is one of the top 500 posters on PbNation
barrel roll is Legendary
More often than not, a CEO is an employee just like the fry-cook is. His pay is determined by the board of trustees. What the people that own the company decide to pay the person "driving the ship" is completely and entirely up to them. If the board thinks this guy's services are worth 8.8 million so be it.

Does the CEO have more responsibility? Rhetorical. Can the CEO kill a company? YES. Can a CEO make a company better? Yes.

Does the fry cook have more responsibility? Rhetorical, again. Can a single fry cook kill a company? NO. Can a single fry cook, performing inside his role, make a company better? No.

I'm hearing people say they want to use the tax code for social justice. They want to take from the rich and give to the poor with the threat of violence. They want to punish those that make more. The purpose of punishment is to curb behavior, and set an example for others "if you act like this guy, you're going to get the same thing he did". That sounds like some crazy Glen Beck **** - where the rich "lefties" don't want anyone else to get rich like them. Because, you know, the rich lefties are the only rich people running around saying these things are good ideas.


What people aren't understanding is that labor is a commodity to be traded. If the labor required is easy... well it isn't worth much. Any mook off the street with a week's training (if that) can do it. If it is difficult, it is worth more. It is why lawn maintenance person's average wage is about 11-12 USD an hour while a small engine mechanic's wages are about 15 per hour USD. A meterials engineer is around 40 USD, and an aerospace engineer is almost 10 USD more. Your average CEO makes over 730k USD a year. The 8.8 million USD earning CEO is well above the 90th percentile.

PS - if you are a McD's employee making 8.25 USD after 20 year, you are either a charity case or you're like Milton from Office Space and they just never stopped paying you.

TLDR - it is all bull****. People are jealous of what others have.
__________________
--- UNDRPRVLGD Goggle Straps n stuff ---
If this be treason, make the most of it.-Patrick Henry
I'm a damn veteran, I've got more rights and privileges than you do.
MQ2 rebuild kits, MP4 ram rebuilds, general 'cocker teching
Will soon be making super slick mid/half block bolts
barrel roll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2012, 12:28 PM #21
TheSilentAssassin
Words and Stuff
 
TheSilentAssassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by benji25 View Post
Because it is a waste of time. If a company is operating within the laws why should the government get involved simply because some people don't think they are doing business "the way they should"? zThey ***** to the government about it. Like I said, if they are doing illegal things that is a different story. BUt why increase government regulations when people are just simply upset with how they do business? Just don't work or shop there. That simple.
I'm assuming you intended to quote me. You didn't really answer my question. You claimed that "they aren't doing anything illegal", but laws can change and government can choose to enforce a lot or a little. The fact that it isn't currently illegal is an absurd notion.

Now, please give me a clear answer. Is this a moral issue or an efficiency issue? Do you believe that a government shouldn't interfere because it is wrong or because it is ineffective? If you believe it to be immoral, then why? If you believe it to be less effective, then why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrel roll View Post
In these united states, those powers are not enumerated.
That means nothing to me. Either governmental intervention is right and the constitution is wrong, or governmental intervention is wrong and the constitution is right. The constitution is a declaration of what we think is right and wrong. The constitution saying something is wrong isn't a reason in itself.
__________________
“There are only two kinds of people, those who accept dogmas and know it, and those who accept dogmas and don’t know it.” – G. K. Chesterton - The Mercy of Mr. Arnold Bennett, Fancies vs. Fads
TheSilentAssassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump