the 5.7mm round, and possibly the Five-Seven pistol specifically, would have been a prime target for banning, what with its specific design to have a large ammo capacity of "cop killer" rounds.
If when writing the AWB your oh so ignorantly called "cop killers" were going to be targeted, 7.62x25mm Tokarev and the guns that fire it would have been banned as well. It's from what I've read better at defeating light armor, and a FRACTION of the cost.
TT-33: $220
FN Five-Seven: $1,050
(per round, cents)
7.62x25mm: 20-30
5.7: 40-50
The fact that you buy into the "cop killer" hype is just evidence that you are a sucker for the propaganda the brady campaign spews.
__________________ "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
If when writing the AWB your oh so ignorantly called "cop killers" were going to be targeted, 7.62x25mm Tokarev and the guns that fire it would have been banned as well. It's from what I've read better at defeating light armor, and a FRACTION of the cost.
TT-33: $220
FN Five-Seven: $1,050
(per round, cents)
7.62x25mm: 20-30
5.7: 40-50
The fact that you buy into the "cop killer" hype is just evidence that you are a sucker for the propaganda the brady campaign spews.
Your analysis of what I wrote is incorrect, colored by your own biases. That is where you and your colleagues in this thread fail. You argue that a law doesn't make sense, then say it wouldn't have done certain things because they don't make sense.
None of what you said changes that the five-seven would be a prime candidate for banning in a political climate favoring the AWB, especially after Fort Hood. The guy pretty much asked for the best weapon to commit mass murder the easiest with, was given it, and went out and did it, just about matching Charles Whitman in 10 minutes.
The guy pretty much asked for the best weapon to commit mass murder the easiest with, was given it, and went out and did it,
That is in fact, not "pretty much" what he asked for.
__________________ "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
That is in fact, not "pretty much" what he asked for.
In retrospect, it was. You can be sure that the connection would be made and hammered, in an environment where the AWB existed.
You need to divorce yourself from your biases in order to step back and understand the bigger picture. You would have likely seen legislation taken up within days to add the gun to the AWB list, if not an executive order.
But hey don't take it from me, check out all the gun forums after the event happened.
In retrospect, it was. You can be sure that the connection would be made and hammered, in an environment where the AWB existed.
You need to divorce yourself from your biases in order to step back and understand the bigger picture. You would have likely seen legislation taken up within days to add the gun to the AWB list, if not an executive order.
But hey don't take it from me, check out all the gun forums after the event happened.
Do you feel that such legislation would have been of any benefit?
I posted this somewhere else. I think it would be fun to watch here.
Those deadly archers are just serial killers waiting to happen.
Holy **** that's nuts.
__________________
It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it
O you who believe! Be mindful of God and give up what remains of riba if you are believers. If you do not do so, then receive a declaration of war from God and his Messenger. But if you repent, you shall have your capital sums. You do not deal unjustly and you are not dealt with unjustly
So... I am going to become the Green Arrow (because Hawkeye is a *****).
Looks like Lars Anderson may put both of them to shame.
__________________
It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it
O you who believe! Be mindful of God and give up what remains of riba if you are believers. If you do not do so, then receive a declaration of war from God and his Messenger. But if you repent, you shall have your capital sums. You do not deal unjustly and you are not dealt with unjustly
In retrospect, it was. You can be sure that the connection would be made and hammered, in an environment where the AWB existed.
You need to divorce yourself from your biases in order to step back and understand the bigger picture. You would have likely seen legislation taken up within days to add the gun to the AWB list, if not an executive order.
But hey don't take it from me, check out all the gun forums after the event happened.
I see the bigger picture, and it's what I was initially commenting on. The fact that those who drive for legislation typically are disconnected from reality. (the fact that the FN gets labelled as a dangerous "cop killer" that must be taken of the streets is a prime example)
in other news, check out my sweet concealable assault weapon
__________________ "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
I see the bigger picture, and it's what I was initially commenting on. The fact that those who drive for legislation typically are disconnected from reality. (the fact that the FN gets labelled as a dangerous "cop killer" that must be taken of the streets is a prime example)
Again, I am not a gun expert by any standard, so correct me if I am wrong but:
Sales of the Five-seven were originally restricted by FN to military and law enforcement customers, but since 2004, the pistol has also been offered to civilian shooters. The Five-seven is currently in service with military and police forces in over 40 nations, such as Canada, France, Greece, India, Poland, Spain, and the United States.[22] In the United States, the Five-seven is in use with numerous law enforcement agencies, including the U.S. Secret Service.
It seems as if the intent of this weapon is designed to be pretty hard core. That is not to say that it should or shouldn't be legal. But why do you feel the legislation to include this gun (designed for military/law enforcement) is "disconnected from reality" when the intention of the legislation was to prevent weapons like this? Like the legislation or not, it seems to me at least that this falls under the type of guns that the legislators were against.
__________________
Milton produced Paradise Lost for the same reason as a silkworm produces silk. It was an expression of his own nature. - Karl Marx
Was the intention of the legislation not to target these types of weapons though? (that's a serious question)
Not really, its purpose was:
Quote:
To make unlawful the transfer or possession of assault weapons.
More of a power grab that was tossed into a larger bill about police/prison funding and statues on hate/gang/sex crime and things of that nature. Not to prevent anyone from having access to deadly weapons because if you read it, it was clearly a novice who doesn't know much about guns.
Again, I am not a gun expert by any standard, so correct me if I am wrong but:
Sales of the Five-seven were originally restricted by FN to military and law enforcement customers, but since 2004, the pistol has also been offered to civilian shooters. The Five-seven is currently in service with military and police forces in over 40 nations, such as Canada, France, Greece, India, Poland, Spain, and the United States.[22] In the United States, the Five-seven is in use with numerous law enforcement agencies, including the U.S. Secret Service.
It seems as if the intent of this weapon is designed to be pretty hard core. That is not to say that it should or shouldn't be legal. But why do you feel the legislation to include this gun (designed for military/law enforcement) is "disconnected from reality" when the intention of the legislation was to prevent weapons like this? Like the legislation or not, it seems to me at least that this falls under the type of guns that the legislators were against.
Most firearms are designed to be "pretty hardcore", however the particular nastyness of the 5.7 comes from its use with pretty hot loaded AP rounds, which isn't imported to the US. A huge percentage of popular semi-automatic handguns were designed with LEO/MIL in mind. Heck, the relatively new and quite popular Smith & Wesson M&P handguns have such a designation right in its name (betcha can guess what M&P stands for)
__________________ "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."
You need to divorce yourself from your biases in order to step back and understand the bigger picture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin
Again, I am not a gun expert by any standard, so correct me if I am wrong but:
Sales of the Five-seven were originally restricted by FN to military and law enforcement customers, but since 2004, the pistol has also been offered to civilian shooters. The Five-seven is currently in service with military and police forces in over 40 nations, such as Canada, France, Greece, India, Poland, Spain, and the United States.[22] In the United States, the Five-seven is in use with numerous law enforcement agencies, including the U.S. Secret Service.
The 5.7 really is a ****ty gun. I don't see the 'it was design for the military' to be any more relevant than it being design for everybody. One gun doesn't have more effective killing power in the hands of someone that trains and knows how to use it. It's like that guy shooting those arrows, he doesn't have a compound bow many use for hunting large game.
