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Old 11-27-2012, 10:07 PM #1
keeper1167
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Front Block air flow 2k2 v 2k5 --- Regulator combos

Hello all,

I'm in the process of finishing my 2k2 dragon build and am looking to gather some info on front block airflow between the 2k2 and 2k5 versions. The area that concerns me most is the effect of each front block on recharge rate of the LPR. Do the different millings pose different volumizing capabilities? Personally I like the look of the 2k2 style fbs as the are more compact. Saying this, I know the 2k5 one is lighter (or though it seems holding them in my hands).

If anyone has any data on this I would love to see it. For anyone that gives an opinion, my internals include: alias ram sleeve, epek ram/spring, high flow barbs/hose, humphry noid. If it turns out that front block style does not effect air flow, can anyone preach on a specific HPR when using the above internals (besides AKA regs done a lot of reading already) and an HP tank?
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:17 PM #2
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the 2k5 block has more volume which helps with recharge but you can use a volumizer on a2k2 block to help

a older torpedo or BL 360 will work great on a Timmy. they are all I use and have never had a problem.

as for tank you can use what ever tank you want. using a LP tank will get more shots than an HP will an you can get a few more using an SLPed tank
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:42 PM #3
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To the LPR, one or the other won't make much difference, the 2k5 block is like having a volumizer on your 2k2 block plus a slightly (and I do mean slightly) larger air reservoir for the LP air side; if you're looking to get the most performance out of your timmy, the 2k5 block is the way to go.

As far as the HPR, any quality HPR will give you good results, it all comes down to preference and looks (heck I run either a 2k5 WGP black magic HPR or an Ion reg on my spimmy and both keep up no problem); I'd recommend a 360 reg or a 2k5 WGP STO reg (the one that came on karnivor's) based on looks.

Looker mode

Sleeper mode

(I'm just showing off now, but wouldn't you if you had a marker you assembled & modded with your own hands?)

Adding to what Loki said about the tank output, you can run them on any output but LP will be best as a rule of thumb (if it's really well tuned and the HPR is under 200 PSI, you can get the best performance out of the SLP).
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:49 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loki1313 View Post
the 2k5 block has more volume which helps with recharge but you can use a volumizer on a2k2 block to help
I've heard this before, but I've also heard of volumizers causing problems with 2k5 builds as well... Somethig about flow being bottle-necked before reaching the vilumizer. Does more volume allow for less turbulence, allowing for more even pressure on the LPR piston? I have yet to take my fluid dynamics class haha.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:55 PM #5
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That's usually related to using the wrong kind of volumizer on the 2k5 block, the 2k2 volly on a 2k5 block will make the marker finicky at best and a nightmare to tune at worst. Using the proper, shorter, 2k5 volumizer will help lower HPR pressure while maintaining the marker's handling characteristics. General consensus is however that 2k5 blocks don't benefit much from a volly because they are already higher volume.

If you're running a 2k2 block, then it's highly recommendable to get a volly.

Higher volume allows for lower pressure, because you're essentially getting the same amount of energy from a larger volume of lower pressure air (you don't need fluid dynamics to understand this, a quick introduction to gas physics or thermodynamics should be good enough ). What it boils down to is the slightly larger amount of air can move slower and still provide the energy to get the paintball going at 280+ fps, this results in a quieter shot that is more gentle on paint and because the poppet is still only open for the same amount of time, the HP chamber in front of the valve doesn't loose as much pressure, resulting in faster recharge.

You can refer to this explanation by timmy (& now shocker) guru Lurker27:
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...3#post20725133

Last edited by tacxplosion : 11-27-2012 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:53 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacxplosion View Post
Higher volume allows for lower pressure, because you're essentially getting the same amount of energy from a larger volume of lower pressure air (you don't need fluid dynamics to understand this, a quick introduction to gas physics or thermodynamics should be good enough ).
Ahhh yes... I had to dust the cobwebs off and take a look at some of my notes. pV = U/(alpha), constant T will mean U doesn't change. Believe it or not I actually did take a thermo/statistical mech class , but by no means was physics my forte.



I guess it's time to add a new fb to the xmas list.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:20 AM #7
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Take into consideration though, that you will need to drill & tap the body for the 2k5 block if you go that route (and anger many purists/hurt re-sale value along the way), you can still use the stock 2k2 block with a volly or get an Empire/Trinity/Evil front block which still has the 2k2 block threads but have almost as much volume as the 2k5 block; only thing is, other than the Evil block (which is also the less stable of the 3 due to a shorter air passage), they are really hard to come by.

If you're hungry for as much performance as you can get without sacrificing looks you can look into these mods:
cupped face bolt mod
http://www.intimidatorowners.com/for...ead.php?t=7206

Gen5 cup seal on empire poppet shaft
http://www.intimidatorowners.com/for...ead.php?t=6308

LP hose mod
http://www.intimidatorowners.com/for...ead.php?t=6490

If you don't mind chopping the body (not really, but some people think it's as bad as...)
http://www.intimidatorowners.com/for...ead.php?t=6415


You can also use a black spyder valve spring in stead of the usual timmy valve spring to lower the resistance of the valve to being opened, helps you lower the LPR which makes for a smoother shot (The Incubus, maker of manuals and all around timmy expert runs them on his markers, as do I).

Last edited by tacxplosion : 11-28-2012 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:44 AM #8
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good luck finding the black spyder spring. it's harder than finding an empire front block
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:58 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loki1313 View Post
good luck finding the black spyder spring. it's harder than finding an empire front block
The spring can be found on eBay. Just look for spyder spring kit.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:44 PM #10
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I picked up a hand treading tool at the hardware store this afternoon, and threaded the set screw hole for a 2k5 fb... I'm not sure why this would make purists angry as I didn't even do any drilling. I can even go back and forth between 2k2 and 2k5 front blocks now using either a set screw or the screw that comes stock with the 2k2 front blocks.



A little teaser pic until I can get a gloss black one and an SCM3 (hopefully after the holidays)



Quote:
Originally Posted by tacxplosion View Post
If you don't mind chopping the body (not really, but some people think it's as bad as...)
http://www.intimidatorowners.com/for...ead.php?t=6415
This along with the Spyder spring mod seems interesting. I don't know if I want to do any drilling yet, but I'll definitely be looking into it.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:56 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tacxplosion View Post
You can also use a black spyder valve spring in stead of the usual timmy valve spring to lower the resistance of the valve to being opened, helps you lower the LPR which makes for a smoother shot (The Incubus, maker of manuals and all around timmy expert runs them on his markers, as do I).
interesting. I think I have one of these in my spares box. how much lower do you normally run the LPR with this spring installed?
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:00 PM #12
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If it's a gen 2.5 dragon body (would've come originally with an Empire frame) then it might have the larger air transfer hole already, measure it up against the alias sleeve's air transfer hole (flip the sleeve inside the body without the set screw on so you can size them up, sleeve hole through the set screw hole), if it's the same size then you don't need to mod it.

Quote:
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interesting. I think I have one of these in my spares box. how much lower do you normally run the LPR with this spring installed?
I run mine at about 60 PSI but have a few other mods on the sleeve:
Stock 2k2 sleeve & ram with adjustable ram cap, 10-32 bored ports with 3/32" ID barbs & matching hose (you can just barely see the edge of the SS 3/32" barb in the spimmy's 1st picture), hyperflow barbs on the 2k2 'noid and a 90* barb on the 'noid to front of sleeve hose. I could probably go lower but the 'noid won't seal if I do.

If all goes well I'll give you guys an update on my 2k5'd Lasoya build, it's gonna be a beast with most of these mods and a couple of my own. Parts are finally on the way (I hate living in a "developing" country, it so messes with my build budget, it will've taken me almost 3 years to put everything together if I'm done by new year).

Last edited by tacxplosion : 11-28-2012 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:02 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkagentj007

The spring can be found on eBay. Just look for spyder spring kit.
I have bought them. they aren't the same spring they used to be
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