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Old 10-06-2013, 08:02 PM #1
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[official] Fall 2013 Combat Classic AAR Thread

Hey players, first I want to say another big THANK YOU! to the players who came out to the game this weekend. Your support is the only thing that allows us to function as a club - everything from tournament entry fees to field maintenance would not be possible without you!

We would like your feedback as we start planning for the 2014 Spring Combat Classic (April 4-6, 2014). If you can, please provide us with some feedback regarding:
1. Gameplay: Were the rules easy to understand? Did you like the original field plan with flag stations as respawns or would you prefer to stick with the traditional base-only spawn system? Did you participate in any missions? Were they enjoyable? Are there any missions you would like to see added to or taken away from the game?
2. Field Layout: Did you like playing on the smaller condensed field on Day 1, or would you like to play on the full field? Did you like the attack/defend field layout?
3. Administration: Did you feel like there was any information that was not ever made available that you needed to know? Was there any information that you would have liked to see sooner? If so, how much lead time do you think that information needs?
4. Misc.: Please feel free to add any other discussion here! We understand that the 16 year old age limit really negatively impacted a lot of players. While we appreciate your feedback, we are already in complete agreement with you all and are working to resolve the issue.

Again, thank you! We hope we see everybody out there in the Spring! Mark your calendars, April 4,5, and 6!
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Old 10-06-2013, 08:34 PM #2
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So when can the smack talk start for the spring game?
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:20 PM #3
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As Captain of the Guerrilla X Group and on there behalf we would like to Thank You all for another outstanding event . We cant image missing any Combat Classic at this point . Its an event that we look forward to playing and more importantly what it supports .

The only Question I have is ... "How can we do more as players to support you all in any way ? "
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:32 PM #4
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Thanks cadets. Given the circumstances i.e. New law , govt shutdown, and short time to organize we all still had great time despite the low number turnout. I am positive that the spring will be much better game. We will help in any way can as this game is special to the east coast paintball community.
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:39 AM #5
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Cadets congrats on getting so much done under such trying circumstances.
As you can tell I'm looking forward to the trash talking for the spring game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by war_hammer View Post
Thanks cadets. Given the circumstances i.e. New law , govt shutdown, and short time to organize we all still had great time despite the low number turnout. I am positive that the spring will be much better game. We will help in any way can as this game is special to the east coast paintball community.
Well said sir.

The only point I disagree with is that I feel this event is more then an East Coast event it is one of the Bucket List Events in Scenario Paintball.
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:09 PM #6
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From Amahvan, cross-posted from the game thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by amahvan View Post
We had an awesome time, as usual for West Point, but this one in particular left us a little unsatisfied.

Can't be mad about the lack of boom because of the govt shutdown, but that helps make the game.

Teams should only be able to advance up to the last flag they captured; that would end the spawn camping

Loved the position of flag 2, lots of battles right there

The missions were all fun, and not corny.

Refs were pretty on point, and threw out the *******s that they caught.

Point spread for the final was ridiculous; we were told several different scores prior to entering the 2nd day, but advantages were given to the yellow team because they were down. We wouldn't have had an issue with this if it was a slaughter, but the yellow team was very good, they were only down because we worked hard and communicated (and skipped lunch) to make sure we secured every objective.

Hands down, no matter what the response here is, here are the facts;

Front lines & flags were back and forth all Saturday.
We completed 8 or 9 objective missions vs ylws 0 missions.
Ylw got extra helicopters (which we had no issues with)
We held all 3 flags for all 3 hours Sunday (refs gave ylw a flag because they were behind)
Ylw spawned at closer flag and held us off for 1 hour in final battle and somehow won the game.

Also, MVP & MVT awards have been awarded for both teams in the past. We know it's not about who wins or loses, it's about having fun, but we're a sponsored team and keep our sponsorship by consistently building publicity by winning, so for us, it is about winning! Haha. I know my guys didn't eat breakfast or lunch either day, and carried 30-80lbs backpacks onto the field so that we never had to abandon the front line and could stay out there from game start to game end. They worked their ***** off and everyone was pretty disappointed when they weren't able to get recognition for their hard work.

It seemed like the overall weekend was pretty much decided by who won the final battle.

We'll definitely be back for the spring, and look forward to our favorite game of the year again.

Now for some shoutouts and apologies;

Pink guys, awesome job holding flag 1 on Sunday, sorry I yelled at you.

Everyone on the blue team, sorry I yelled at you.

Everyone on the yellow team, sorry I killed you.

Fitz & O'Niel & Norwich, awesome job, great communication, and we look forward to playing with you guys again. That was the smoothest cross-team communication we've ever run outside of our own unit.

Black Widow Company, you guys were monsters out there. Suppressing fire on the ridge Sunday morning and on the open courtyard for the push Sunday afternoon was impeccable. Look forward to playing with you again as well.

Tristen, our newest recruit, did an incredible job and was inducted into the unit.

Kelly, our Marine Sqd Leader, was on point all day; confirmed double digit kills with single digit deaths, and captured several objectives held by 20+ yellow leading a team of 5.

Levon, our 2nd Lt, surrendered 3 yellow players including a cadet with no gun after crawling behind enemy lines.

Apologies to the guy we ambushed in the brush center field by the castle. We tried to hit you single shot, but the guns were on full auto so a burst of 3-5 came out of each. You scared us as much as we scared you.

I think that's it, but if I missed anyone, call me out on it.

Cadets, we'll see you in the Spring.
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:27 PM #7
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Just some clarification on scoring, as I was the one who both created and tracked the scoreboard for the game:

At the end of Day 1, the score was tied. I am not sure who told you that you completed 8 or 9 objective missions, as there was only one objective mission on Day 1 - the LAAV recovery mission. Both teams completed similar numbers of secondary missions (barriers being blown, mortar emplacement, etc.).

As far as field domination, the yellow team repeatedly trapped the blue team in there spawn, We stepped in to help blue get out of there base when it became apparent that players were refusing to even step on the field. This included closing the flag point respawns, forcing yellow to walk all the way back across the field to respawn, removing the yellow helicopters, and allowing the blue team to use the LAAV as a mobile spawn point that would have allowed them to walk all the way across the field, basically invincible, if they had wanted to. We made these changes in the interest of keeping the game fun for everyone, but they definitely helped skew the points to allow the blue team to remain in contention for Day 1.

On the morning of Day 2, we did not "give" yellow a flag "because they were behind." The decision had already been made that when the game reached the last half hour, the time required to hold the flag for yellow would be reduced to three minutes in order to account for the superior defensive positions of the Blue team and give both sides a reason to stay on the field playing until "Game Over." Apparently this information was not communicated to the Blue team, which is a failure on my part. I take full responsibility for that mistake.

MVP and MVT Awards - these were chosen by the generals based on what they saw during the game. To be honest, I am not sure why there was only one of each award. I believe it was a logistical issue created by the government shutdown (plaques made in-house at USMA), but I will look into it and do my best to make sure there are two of each at the spring game.

Thank you all for the feedback!
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:30 PM #8
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Referencing Amahvan's comment on the flag respawn system- for anyone who played in last year's Spring game and this year's Fall game, which system did you like better: the tiered flag system from last Spring, the flag respawn system from the Fall, or the typical base -only respawn system?

If you have other ideas for respawns, post them up and we will definitely take a look at them! Thanks.
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Old 10-07-2013, 06:36 PM #9
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I've played in Dozens of Scenario Games over the last few years. This was my 2nd West Point Game and one of my more Favorite Locations.

This is what I thought:
1-More Vendors (Tippman, Empire, small mom and pop stores, etc.)
2- The field size and layout for this past weekend was excellent
3- Clarify the "West Point"Game isn't a bunch of walk on's vs. Super Army Commandos Delta Force Ranger Seals. you will be amazed that when I asked friends to Come play most were intimidated.
4- As everyone is worried about $$$ these days have a discount if U come to The fall game 1/2 price to the Spring Game or something like that.
5- When I think of West Point I think Army Hummers and Tanks. can u have a couple of those suckers parked in the Parking lot area, or a Helecoptor. They are cool to look at.
6- Full Auto Firing Mode - not a big fan.
7- I don't know how that Speaker system can get the Music across Lake Fredrick but I think it's bad ***. last year the DJ played more Halo Music. Hopefully they can take requests for Spring Game.
8- Ski team Hamburgers Are Yummy.


The Ref's are the best I've ever seen. If you are in harms way and put up your hand that u are out, they will run over and make sure you get back without getting hit again.

thank you again west point paintball. see u in April.
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Old 10-08-2013, 02:26 AM #10
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Refs at West Point are always awesome.

I like the flag spawn but front lines should be limited to the last flag before spawn. We (blue team) pushed yellow all the way back to their spawn also, but instead of camping the insert, we set up a defensive line on the ridge and let them come out to us.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:31 AM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amahvan View Post
I like the flag spawn but front lines should be limited to the last flag before spawn. We (blue team) pushed yellow all the way back to their spawn also, but instead of camping the insert, we set up a defensive line on the ridge and let them come out to us.
Players- do you agree? Our thinking behind not limiting how far one team can advance is that we don't want to limit or punish a team for playing well. For those who played with the tier system last Spring, did you find that annoying or too limiting, or do you think it was an effective system?
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:02 PM #12
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i think (and i believe others would agree) that you should bring back the rule that generals are headshots only and count for points, makes it more fun to hunt generals also the tier spawn flag respawn was awesome and fun. hopefully there will be more boom and military stuff at the spring combat classic, more vendors would be cool, but overall im satisfied with all combat classics, keep up the good work (btw it was suggested ski patrol should also breakfast) and maybe you guys can set up a speed ball field on that open field across from the lake? just thoughts
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:59 PM #13
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I think with all of the obstacles considered, you guys and girls did a wonderful job again. I wasn't a fan of the narrow field even though there were fewer players. The hill is an *** kicker (definitely keep the respawn at either end on the top though) but it gives you more maneuver room. I think that the player brief could be earlier. Maybe take the time to give some objectives and mission info. Then the generals can meet with those players that wanted to participate in missions/strategy after and prep for the game. There seemed to be some confusion as to what we were supposed to be doing at times. I love coming to the Classic and look forward to many many more. Especially now that I'm a Red Raider!------ Bad Santa
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:00 PM #14
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As a person who is always ontop of the hill when playing on that field, I found the tier system annoying honestly. In the spring we owned the hill dead to rights, but every time we would lose it, was because of the limitation of our advance.
I would say add some extra cover around the spawn points so that way the team pushed back to their spawn zone has the ability to defend it from decent cover.
(Last spring, myself and two other guys held the allies from over-running our spawn point during the last 5 minutes of day one at the fork in the road because of the cover).

I also was annoyed earlier in the year when a portion of the back section of the field was cut off when the stream was over-flowing, but then I realize that could be a safety issue.
Why limit the field. The only reason that a team loses at West Point is from lack of motivation for their entire team (that being said there have been times where I have had my Raiders motivated, but no matter what we did, we couldnt get the players motivated). These games are won or lost on the field through the encouragement of the veteran, seasoned players, assisting the greenhorns out there.

TL;DR - Keep the entire field open.
-Smokey
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:15 AM #15
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Couldn't have said anything about the motivation and momentum of the game any better ^

I disagree about the spawn camping though. Blue spawn is surrounded by high ground, and is way harder to get out of.
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Old 10-13-2013, 07:12 AM #16
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Would the kids have been able to play if they have a hinting licence?
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:28 PM #17
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More Misfit. That is all.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:39 PM #18
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Dirty Sweatshirts wants a bunkhouse!!!!!!!!!!! who do we need to talk tooo????
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:55 PM #19
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Dirty Sweatshirts wants a bunkhouse!!!!!!!!!!! who do we need to talk tooo????
Yeah I'm also interested in one a well.
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:18 AM #20
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WP2015 and I are currently working on the Spring game and we appreciate your feedback and discussion. We already have some new ideas we believe you will thoroughly enjoy and we want help refining what we have. Know that we read through and take into consideration all of your comments so if you have criticism/suggestions we want to hear them.
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Old 10-19-2013, 03:27 PM #21
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Lets for Kursk 43. If we could you that big field by the parking lot.
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