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Old 01-17-2013, 11:57 AM #1
ilikegunz
 
 
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Whats the deal with "mid end markers"

To be very honest, I have shot all types of guns. List of what I have shot

Dye: dmc, dm6, dm8, dye nt
Proto: pm7, pm8, rail

Eclipse: ego7, ego8, etek 3, ego11

Dangerous power: G3, G4, THRESHOLD, REV-I

bob long: protege, vice, marq7

Macdev: droid

Smart parts: almost every shocker, ions

DLX: Luxe.......

Invert: mini (and empire axe)


To be very honest. People, why is it you honestly think these mid-range-priced markers cannot perform as well as the more expensive one.

I have an ego8, and a mini btw. And also an old very upped ion. I will be very blunt. My mini shoots just as fast, and just as straight as my ego, they are ball on ball. Just like my ego8... And to be utterly honest, my ion doesshoot just as straight and just as fast as both of those markers as well. Tune your gun correctly, and it Still remains a projectile (one that costs less), but overall does the exact same thing.

They all shoot equally straight (I can understand saying no to a stock or lightly upped ion which includes the bolt system along with the board). So why am I always hearing that an ego is flat out a much better gun than a mini or an axe, or even a g4 (when it shoots corectly), or one of the newer rails? Maybe in terms of looks and feel for most, and the resale. But they all shoot pretty much the same in that they shoot just as straight with little to no kick... what gives?

I would have no problem shooting a mini for my entire paintball career. I have played many tournaments. I have ten years of experience. I am a good player (not bragging). I know the game inside out. And I am smart enough to see that honestly, these all shoot just as straight as the next. What gives?
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:06 PM #2
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Well they all shoot the same... except that they don't. Even between an axe and a mini, the axe is much smoother, softer on paint, and makes a much more pleasing noise when fired. Not to mention the ergonomics. Beyond that you have the quality of the guns. A g3/4/5/whatever, as you said, has some serious reliability and quality control issues. More expensive guns should not(that doesn't mean they all don't, but most established "high ends" do not.) The more expensive guns are often much more efficient also. And, they come out of the box with everything you would need. Eclipse guns come with what is arguably the best board on the market. I prefer them over just about anything. These guns also come with more consistent regs, top of the line barrels(occasionally kits), solid on/off asa's, good feednecks, and so on. There is no need, and usually no point, to replace any part of the gun. Further beyond that is the customer support and companies behind the guns. And honestly, a lot of people like shooting the "supergun thisyear" because it makes them happy, and they feel cooler and like they have a "prestige" factor, whether or not they actually do. So, there is definitely a large difference.

quick addition: However, the difference is not necessarily reflected in the price. The "bang for your buck" is higher at lower end guns. However, the price of those last few drops of quality and performance are worth the additional price tag to some people.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:07 PM #3
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A lot of people ask the same question
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:22 PM #4
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well. I am simply just talking about how straight they all shoot. I believe the only thing I was trying to accomplish was share my view that regardless of efficiency, and smoothness. They all shoot just as straaight as the others. And my mini has decent efficiency.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:26 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikegunz View Post
well. I am simply just talking about how straight they all shoot. I believe the only thing I was trying to accomplish was share my view that regardless of efficiency, and smoothness. They all shoot just as straaight as the others. And my mini has decent efficiency.
The shot is very similar. But that is just part of what makes a great paintball marker. Though, all other factors aside, yeah the shots are similar.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:32 PM #6
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I think the whole mid range high end bla bla bla stuff is kind of pointless i mean like what you said with the mini being just as good as the ego i completely agree! So over all i think the whole mid range deal just came out of feel for the gun and the way companies make them like on the egos they can go for 1000 or so new and an etek that imo shoots just as good sells for 400??? So really it is just the way the companies make them.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:48 PM #7
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Here's the scariest thing about this subject.

You take two guns that perform 100% identical in every measurable way, but cost differently. Many people will swear the more expensive one shoots better.

The knowledge that they're using the more "high end" product actually triggers a particular part of the brain (the medial orbitofrontal cortex) that's associated with pleasure. This is true even if the knowledge is incorrect. In one study people were asked to rate the taste of wines. The same wine scored better when people were told it was $90 a bottle compared to the exact same wine (as in from the exact same bottle) when they believed it was a $10 a bottle.

Link to that particular study...
http://www.caltech.edu/content/wine-...ces-perception
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:03 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikegunz View Post
I am a good player (not bragging).
I'm not impressed with your humblebragging skills.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:47 AM #9
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Quote:
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I am a good player (not bragging).
Lol what
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:42 PM #10
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It is all based on what people can afford.....
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:02 PM #11
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Just within the mid-range market there are huge differences in how a marker feels and the shot quality (report, smoothness, etc ...)
As for shooting straight that will be more impacted by the quality of paint, paint to bore match, barrel and the consistency of the marker. Given those factors are roughly equal, most markers will be just as accurate as the next.
It then comes down to personal preference in features, and how the marker feels when held and how it shoots.
Personal Preference is why we have so many options available.
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:57 PM #12
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Personal preference is the major deciding factor for a new paintball gun.

G6r's are one of the best guns on the market. I have played with a few of them. But I went with an axe because of how it felt in my hand compared. Some people want every ounce of performance they can get and will pay top dollar for it.

As far as all those guns that shoot just as straight as the next is true. My spyder shoots just as straight as my axe, but that is just a tiny part of the bigger picture.

There are excellent guns in each price range, each with different ergonomics and different features and luxuries.

What it cones down to is, how much money you have and what you want out of that gun.

Personal preference.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:14 PM #13
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I started with low end and moved through mid to high. Do they all work? Sure. When you move up typically more features are offered. These platforms are usually where the newest technology shows up first, too. At the end of the day it all comes down to what features you want, how much you can afford, and shot quality as perceived by the end user. Oh course the hype and cool factor are in the formula also, but these intangibles are impossible to measure.

The proof... Gun whores. If you are like me, buy a used marker and try it. If the user likes it, I gets a permanent place in the collection. If not it is traded for the next marker to test.

My favorites have been Mini and Axe, Geo 2 and 3, and Bob Long Vice. Incoming DM 11.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:44 PM #14
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Reliability and what you get stock

Lets compare the reflex rail and dm13

What is on the DM that's not on the reflex
Tooles grips
Tooles bolt
Dye UL barrel
LPR
Better parts kit
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:59 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PalmHarborPirates View Post
Reliability and what you get stock

Lets compare the reflex rail and dm13

What is on the DM that's not on the reflex
Tooles grips
Tooles bolt
Dye UL barrel
LPR
Better parts kit
Reflex and DM have different operating designs. Reflex is an unbalanced spool (solenoid directs air to cock back bolt, just like an ion) while the DM is balanced spool (solenoid moves bolt forward and backwards). The LPR is needed for the operation of the solenoid in the DM. A rail does not need an LPR due to the design. The lower pressure on the solenoid allow the bolt to move at a more consistent speed.

The rail just requires less complicated parts and probably less mill time (time is money). Since the gun itself costs less, Dye can run it at a cheaper price with less expensive accessories for the beginning tourny player. Toolless bolt isn't exactly difficult to make, just add extra flanges to the backcap. My PMR's stock backcap was pretty easy to twist out with my fingers.

Overall, electronics aside, the guns probably run with similar reliability.

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Old 01-19-2013, 09:11 PM #16
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I cant tell a difference when I shoot my etek and when I shot a friends ego. But the ego is probably is better on air and paint if you were shooting something brittle. Is the difference enough you would notice? I dont know.
But the big thing is the LCD and board. Its not worth paying for to me but some guys want to feel good about shooting the best and some just like being able to say they shoot the best.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:30 PM #17
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Don't forget the game has changed

Capped guns, ie slower rates of fire 12.5 bps, less shoot down on lower flow regs. Also less precision needed cause you aren't shooting at a sustained 18 bps. The nt is the most fickle gun that I have encountered that is high end. When working, that thing is a nightmare, but slight issues with lube, weather, etc and performance can be affected.

If you need every ounce of advantage and can afford it, then drop the 1k+, however for local tournaments and rec play, a mid level gun is all you need.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:18 PM #18
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I have a mini and think about getting an axe.

The mini shoots just fine for threw number of games I play.
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