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Old 12-07-2012, 10:30 AM #22
bunkerking_13
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So is there a benefit to running my dm9 bwing bolt with my pm7s can in my PM7? Probably not.

And I thought only pm8s and up can run the new different length bolt. I thought the PM8 used the dm9+ and up bolt length.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:50 AM #23
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Lol, all of those upgrades aren't necessary. But yes, PM7's are a great deal for the prices you can pick the up for.
No they really aren't but it's all preferance & how you like your set-up. I do feel that if you want the smoothest shooting PM7 you really have to have the L7 that's tuned properly. The L7 seemed to work best in the PM7 for some reason.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:39 PM #24
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The only difference is the can is slightly different. For example, when you are putting a dm9/10 bolt kit in a pm7, you have to use the pm7 can with the bolt kit. So, there is a minor difference in air volume, but I don't really think that it makes that much of a difference.

Just thought I would put this straight.
I have a PM6/PM8 and a pair of calipers that I can use to compare the two. I'll post up the differences in measurements soon.

I know for a fact that the tail on the previous gen fuse bolt is smaller then the one that is compatible with the PM8. This led me to believe that the PM8 had less forward bias then my PM6, which could result in a lower LPR setting.

As a side note, we REALLY should refer to the fuse bolt in terms of generations, it would make conversations like these a lot easier.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:34 AM #25
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Ok, here's what I've found. The external diameters and lengths of the top hat and can are EXACTLY the same...

The only noticeable difference between the two bolts (besides the external o-ring placement on the can, which only effects the LP gas) is the difference in the tail of the bolt, and the changes around it. Ultimately, the effect of a larger tail section doesn't effect the dump chamber because it requires a reciprocally larger section that goes under the top hat.

Because of the enlarged tail, they needed to modify the internal dimensions of the top hat. The earlier version had a little more room for gas routing into inside the top hat, but had a smaller opening then the next gen bolt. I don't know how, or if this would make a net change in flow between the two bolts, I would have to model them and test it (which I don't care to do)... it's very likely that the difference in flow is a wash. I will say that because the previous gen bolt would increase the already humungous gas pre-expansion space the bolt has, it would negatively effect efficiency.

So, the only thing that I can tell for sure is that the newer bolt weighs a little more, is, maybe, more efficient.
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Last edited by CrazyHarry : 12-08-2012 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:46 PM #26
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But one of the benefits of the bwing bolt in a pm is the polished surfaces, and lower pressure that come from it. There was a thread I saw a link to not too long ago on here. I'll try and find it.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:48 PM #27
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Found it:

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3272639
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:42 PM #28
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This is the second time I've heard this... yet I still do not believe it. Considering the same bolts will fit the equivalent PM's, the ID of the internal bore for the bolt has to be the same for it to seal correctly. Otherwise, the o rings would just float in space. I could be wrong, but I have seen no evidence to convince me otherwise.

IMO, I think this sounds like one of those unsubstantiated myths that people tell themselves to justify spending money on a more expensive marker. I will be happy to recant my statement if someone can prove me wrong though.
What?

PM's always had a shorter bolt assembly than the DM series. Meaning less chamber volume and slightly higher operating pressure.

When the DM9 came along it featured the same bolt length as the previous PM8, but with additional milling inside the body to increase chamber volume.

Unless you are talking about something different, it's not a myth and was always pretty obvious. Of course there were many people who would pay the extra $500 or w/e to buy the DM, and throw a tophat mod on not realizing that they were making it perform exactly like the PM always did.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:24 AM #29
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What?

PM's always had a shorter bolt assembly than the DM series. Meaning less chamber volume and slightly higher operating pressure.

When the DM9 came along it featured the same bolt length as the previous PM8, but with additional milling inside the body to increase chamber volume.

Unless you are talking about something different, it's not a myth and was always pretty obvious. Of course there were many people who would pay the extra $500 or w/e to buy the DM, and throw a tophat mod on not realizing that they were making it perform exactly like the PM always did.
So, in other words, I am under the false impression that the same bolt could be used in the PM7 as what is used in the equivalent DM's? It was my impression that they were interchangeable. If I'm wrong, then it looks like this is where the misunderstanding comes from.

I will say that a change in bore length makes a lot more sense then the "internal milling" that I was picturing in my head. I was looking at my PM7's bolt and was thinking that there was no real way to increase the diameter of the dump chamber while keeping the rear cap's dimensions the same (in other words making the ID of the dump chamber bigger then the ID of the rear cap's bore). I guess you COULD do it by sticking the body on a lathe and having a special tool remove material from the dump chamber's walls... but that kind of effort didn't make sense in relation to the gains that you would receive from it.

I know the your statement is wrong in regards to the PM8, the same bolt for the PM8 works in the DM9-11, but I don't own one of the earlier DM's so I can't confirm.

You'll have to forgive me for approaching problems like this with a health dose of skepticism. There are plenty of myths floating around in the paintball community that appear equally "obvious" to the people that subscribe to them.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:52 AM #30
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The PM5-8 had shorter tail/back caps compared to the DM4-8. Even without taking the bolt out, you will notice the feedneck on the PM is closer to the rear of the marker.

And like I said, when the DM9 came out they switched to a shorter length like the PM8, but they did machine the body to compensate. They did not change the ID where the o-rings seal, but did hollow out the dump chamber area.

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