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Old 11-21-2012, 06:52 PM #43
universal_dave
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Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
OK, but you're not a renter. Looking at it from Sam and Sally Renter's viewpoint..are Sam and Sally likely to love it and most importantly, are they going to come back for more?
I would think so, that's why I'd really like to see it. I think they'd feel like they're on closer to an even keel, so I think they'd be having fun. There may be a bit of "sticker shock" when they transition to the "other team" (folks not getting the free paint)...but I think it'd be fun to experience.
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:58 PM #44
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Originally Posted by universal_dave View Post
I would think so, that's why I'd really like to see it. I think they'd feel like they're on closer to an even keel, so I think they'd be having fun. There may be a bit of "sticker shock" when they transition to the "other team" (folks not getting the free paint)...but I think it'd be fun to experience.
I'm not sure what you mean by, "I think they'd feel like they're on closer to an even keel"? Do you mean that all the renters would feel equal because they can all shoot as much as they want rather than some renters being able to shoot more than other renters because they can afford more? You're thinking that this would be more fun for them even if it would create a more intense environment overall? Am I understanding that right?
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:40 PM #45
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Yeah. I have frequently seen renters who feel like they're just being rained on and they can't *really* keep up. If their paint were free (and everyone else was payin) then I think that would help them "keep up" for lack of a better term.

Yes, there'd be more more paint coming at me, but I don't think it's a game changing amount and if those folks are having a better time, *I* am having a better time.

Maybe I am unusual, but other folks I am playing with having a bad day *does* affect me and I'd rather everyone was having fun.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:09 PM #46
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Originally Posted by universal_dave View Post
Yeah. I have frequently seen renters who feel like they're just being rained on and they can't *really* keep up. If their paint were free (and everyone else was payin) then I think that would help them "keep up" for lack of a better term.

Yes, there'd be more more paint coming at me, but I don't think it's a game changing amount and if those folks are having a better time, *I* am having a better time.

Maybe I am unusual, but other folks I am playing with having a bad day *does* affect me and I'd rather everyone was having fun.
OK, but these are just renters playing against other renters. I purposely left regular players (gear owners) out of the equation so we wouldn't make that comparison.

Would renters playing amongst themselves be more likely to have fun and start playing paintball regularly if they had free paintballs with no restrictions on how many they shoot opposed to having to pay for paintballs and therefore being limited somewhat.

Last edited by Horizon : 11-21-2012 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:10 PM #47
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I would take this out. Probably go through a pallet or so.
that would be so freakin awesome.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:53 AM #48
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I'm not even gonna lie. That is one of the coolest paintball guns I have ever seen. I want one for Christmas.
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:05 AM #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
I purposely left regular players (gear owners) out of the equation so we wouldn't make that comparison.
Yeah, but this is the internet, I don't have to accept a premise I don't agree with.

I've seen people with rental gear playing against folks with their own gear for decades. I think it'd be great to see the "free paint" go along with the rental gear to help it even up.

It's not like it's likely to happen anywhere, but if it ever did, I'd like to play it, I think it'd be fun.
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:11 AM #50
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Yeah, but this is the internet, I don't have to accept a premise I don't agree with.
lol
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:08 AM #51
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Here are my thoughts on ďfreeĒ. Take from it what you will.

For something to be popular and participated in with large numbers, first and foremost it has to be fun. If itís not fun, it doesnít matter what the cost is, people arenít going to take part. There are a lot of ďfreeĒ (or virtually free) activities in the world. People can play tiddly winks or jax for next to nothing, but you donít see many people playing these games. Why? Because they are not very much fun, at least not for very long. On the other hand, there are activities that are participated in much larger numbers that are relatively expensive...because they are fun.

Paintball can be fun, but it can also be not fun for people. When paintball is not fun, then like tiddly winks, it doesnít matter how cheap you make it for people, they arenít going to take part.

Now... we all have different tastes and different opinions of what may be fun and may not be fun. For instance, there is probably a very small segment of the general population who think tiddly winks is awesome...but most of us donít. There would also be a very small segment of the general population that would enjoy playing paintball in an environment where everyone on the field is basically shooting non-stop, where everyone is leaning on the trigger for the duration of the game, from start to end. But most people in the general population would not find that fun, and therefore would not take part, even if it were virtually free.

Taking cost out of the equation for a moment, above all, in paintball, we need to create an environment that is fun. Now I realize that there is no one single format or solution that fits that bill. There are different types of people who will find different kinds of paintball fun. Thatís fine. But in my opinion, at fields that cater to newer players, at least in part, those fields need to make sure they provide a version of the game that is fun for the general population, above all else. After they have assured themselves that they are providing that, then they can look at things like price. But if the activity isnít fun in the first place for the general population, no matter what the price, participation will falter.

Tying that in with this thread, providing paintballs for free so that even first time players will shoot enormous amounts so they donít feel like underdogs, will create an environment that most of those players will not find fun. If they donít find the activity fun, they are not going to participate in the future, even if itís free or really inexpensive.

Letís backtrack just a bit. We know there are all sorts of people who will enjoy paintball at different intensity levels. Common sense tells us there is an intensity level that will attract the highest number of participants (more people will be willing to take part at that intensity level than at any other intensity level). Will free paintball, where we know many will be shooting huge volumes, create that intensity level? No. We all know that, whether we want to admit it to ourselves or not. It would just be too intense for the majority of people and they will choose to do something other than play paintball.

Would $5/case paintballs be conducive to attract the highest number of participants? No. We all know that would still create an environment not that much unlike free paintball. We all know that as paintball prices have dropped over the years, the amount of paintball shot has increased. As we get closer to $0 (free), we know it will actually hinder growth. But where is the line drawn? I donít have that answer, but I do want to make people aware that wishing for paintball to become cheaper and cheaper, will not automatically ensure that more people will take part. There comes a point where the opposite happens; that less people will take part.
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:13 AM #52
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Old 11-22-2012, 07:20 PM #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
We have threads asking how much paint people shoot, but I wanted to pose a hypothetical question. This would probably never happen, but it would be fun to speculate.

If you went to your local field and they charged you $20 for field fees and all day air and the field supplied an unlimited amount of paintballs to everyone for free (I realize this would never happen in reality), how many paintballs do you think you would shoot in a day of rec play (knowing that the paint is free for everyone else you will be playing with and against as well)? You can't take any home though. They must be shot at the field that day. No restrictions on rate of fire either.
this actually happened to me. one of our local fields which is ran by the army. They charged us $20 field and air fees and we got unlimited paint. Its was some cheap heat and stinger paint but it was free. We ran points back to back and played for about 4 hours. We went through a total of about 5 cases.
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Old 11-22-2012, 07:56 PM #54
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about a 2500-3000 paintballs a day

but I shoot that now and pay for it
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:01 AM #55
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I played at a field that had an "all you can shoot" deal... Basically pay for 2 cases of paint, and you get unlimited paint.

I was asked to leave because I was going through so much paint... I basically killed their day because they "wanted" people to shoot that much... Or at least, they wanted people to think they COULD shoot that much... amazing what 20bps non stop all day from a good player can do to a full field of people... I ended up having people follow me with paint and air just so I could rain all over the other team... It was a few games after that, where the owner pulled me aside and said I had to either shoot less or pack it up and go home... So, I got a refund and went home.

I tried to go back a few weeks later and was denied the all you can shoot deal... That field no longer exists.
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:33 AM #56
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i think id be hard pressed to shoot more than a case of psint in day whether it was free or not. thats about what i average when i use my axe. however, between games and such im sure id just go to the chrono range and practice trigger walking.more often than not, though, im using my TPX, so there's simply no way im ever shooting more than a bag with that thing regardless.
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Old 11-23-2012, 03:14 PM #57
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I think the cure would be to charge $150+ for a case of paint
Nah, $180 a case! You're not being true to the Horizon school of price-gouging.
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Old 11-23-2012, 05:44 PM #58
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Well in NZ renters do pay $200 a case. If you have your own gun and are part of the local club you get paint for $70 lol.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:25 AM #59
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atleast 2 more cases than i shoot now
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Old 12-03-2012, 06:38 AM #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
We have threads asking how much paint people shoot, but I wanted to pose a hypothetical question. This would probably never happen, but it would be fun to speculate.

If you went to your local field and they charged you $20 for field fees and all day air and the field supplied an unlimited amount of paintballs to everyone for free (I realize this would never happen in reality), how many paintballs do you think you would shoot in a day of rec play (knowing that the paint is free for everyone else you will be playing with and against as well)? You can't take any home though. They must be shot at the field that day. No restrictions on rate of fire either.
Want to actually answer the initial question before reading the thread to see where it might have derailed too.

I would shoot the same I shoot now. The amount of paint I shoot isn't limited to what I can afford. Its determined by the level of competition I'm playing against, size of the games and how many games I play in that day.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:54 AM #61
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Want to actually answer the initial question before reading the thread to see where it might have derailed too.

I would shoot the same I shoot now. The amount of paint I shoot isn't limited to what I can afford. Its determined by the level of competition I'm playing against, size of the games and how many games I play in that day.
Good answer. Do you think the amount would change for the people you are playing with, given that their paint would also be free?

If the amount they shoot changed, would the amount you shoot change?
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:43 AM #62
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Originally Posted by Horizon
Good answer. Do you think the amount would change for the people you are playing with, given that their paint would also be free?

If the amount they shoot changed, would the amount you shoot change?
I can honestly say the guys I play with, and those I personally know who are experienced in the sport, would do like I do; shoot what we might need. I see more of the renters and noobs being the ones to shoot more simply because they could.

Actually had an experience about a year ago where a field owner hooked myself and my boys up with 3 free cases. We didn't even shoot it all that day. Shot some and came back the next day to finish off the rest.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:14 AM #63
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I think these questions are flawed and unrealistic, therefore the conclusions you have come to and tried to "get us to understand" are also flawed.

No field owner in his right mind is going to combine unlimited paint with unlimited ROF and large teams, simply due to it being a recipe for chaos.

I could see unlimited paint with either capped rof, no full auto, or limit on how much paint you can actually bring into the field, or a tank size requirement.

It would also need to come with a higher price of admission and higher rental fee to at least partially subsidize the cost of paint.

I understand paintball is an expensive sport and im 100 percent supportive of profiting on every aspect of it if you can. However after a certain point customers dont want to spend anymore
As it is field charge admission, lets say admission partially covers the lease or cost of the land. On top of that they usually charge more for air, if its not a specific air charge, its a combined field and air fee, usually same or more than those who charge seperately.
THEN, those who wish to rent pay up to 40 in equipment rentals, which i bet pays for the rented equipment after the 4th or 5th time rented what with buying in bulk and wholesale.
Then paint is bought at wholesale im sure so thats a source of profit

So after a while almost everything has paid for itself and youre raking in profit by the bucketful

Again im all for a business succeeding profiting and becoming fat and rich, and i understand im not factoring in replacing equipment, utilities employees permits insurance etc.

However with as many people as come out with prices as high as they are (rent a marker for a third of what you can buy it for) imagine how many more would come out if the prices were lower! Imagine if paint was provided at below (or at) retail but still at a profit to the field. It would take more customers to recoup your costs but youd draw so many more in and keep so many more coming back that youd get there faster. The perfect definition of less is more.
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