Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-21-2012, 04:19 PM #127
Treghc
 
 
Treghc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle
Treghc is a Supporting Member
Treghc is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Treghc is a Forum Captain
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
While there is no one definition of American Dream, the definitions all center around social and economic mobility, certain societal values, and a certain standard of living.
I doubt you could actually back up that claim. The "American Dream" is nothing more than the dream of what people want to accomplish. People are not homogeneous. The majority catering to something does not make it truth. Everyone has different aspirations and goals in this country. Who are you to tell them they are right or wrong? What control variable do you compare that to?

Quote:
You can't say that the American Dream is being single and subsisting on a poverty-level income (or perhaps to use a concept you may find more relatable, on welfare) simply because one person aspires to that. That's effectively what you are doing here.
And you can't say that the American Dream is being married for 50 years while making $250,000/year and owning a 10,000 sq ft house with a view and a three car garage simply because one person aspires to that. That's effectively what you are doing here.

Quote:
Come to think of it, quite to the contrary of claims, our two friends above, in fact, literally depict what is wrong with this country. The American Dream has become so elusive that people actually aspire to poor wages and living alone or childless in poor areas of the country. That is both sad and illustrative.
How is wanting a $25,000/year job something that is wrong with this country? They want to make more money than they currently do now. Saying they shouldn't want that is wrong.
__________________
“But men, they say a lot of foolish things. In the end, the only words I can find to believe in are mine." - Joe

Tarsier Slave


We are Sapien
Treghc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 05:27 PM #128
drgonzo
Half-cocked
 
drgonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
I doubt you could actually back up that claim. The "American Dream" is nothing more than the dream of what people want to accomplish. People are not homogeneous. The majority catering to something does not make it truth. Everyone has different aspirations and goals in this country. Who are you to tell them they are right or wrong? What control variable do you compare that to?
Of course I can back it up, because it's true.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...erican%20dream
Quote:
an American social ideal that stresses egalitarianism and especially material prosperity; also : the prosperity or life that is the realization of this ideal
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/american+dream
Quote:
1.
the ideals of freedom, equality, and opportunity traditionally held to be available to every American.
2.
a life of personal happiness and material comfort as traditionally sought by individuals in the U.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream
Quote:
The American Dream is a national ethos of the United States, a set of ideals in which freedom includes the opportunity for prosperity and success, and an upward social mobility achieved through hard work.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/American+dream
Quote:
American dream also American Dream
n.
An American ideal of a happy and successful life to which all may aspire: "In the deepening gloom of the Depression, the American Dream represented a reaffirmation of traditional American hopes"' (Anthony Brandt).

n
the. the notion that the American social, economic, and political system makes success possible for every individual.
What you said there is horse****. The American Dream is a range, but it is a consistent concept. Material prosperity has always been a hallmark of the American Dream. It is not completely subjective as you are trying to say. Moneyed interests would like you to believe that, and your believing it is a problem. When material prosperity is forgotten out of the American Dream, 1) those who would take your prosperity for themselves win, and 2) America as a whole loses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
And you can't say that the American Dream is being married for 50 years while making $250,000/year and owning a 10,000 sq ft house with a view and a three car garage simply because one person aspires to that. That's effectively what you are doing here.
What? I said nothing even close to that. Why make stuff up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
How is wanting a $25,000/year job something that is wrong with this country? They want to make more money than they currently do now. Saying they shouldn't want that is wrong.
It is vitally important that you put the $25k/yr figure into context. These are career jobs that are being slashed in pay and benefits, with the pay dropping by 50%(!) to reach $25k -- after 15 years of employment in this career. This is economic disaster for workers and the country at large.

This is not at all the same thing as a $25k entry-level or early career job. For those saying they would like this $25k/yr job, realize that you can't even have it -- you would need years of experience to get you to the bakery's top scale wage!
__________________
PUMPPB.COM - Pump paintball forums
HawaiiPB.com - Paintball forums for the state of Hawaii
HawaiiPB/PumpPB - Our videos | Droidtiles.com - NFC Tags for Android and mobile devices

Last edited by drgonzo : 11-21-2012 at 05:33 PM.
drgonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 05:54 PM #129
StellarKnight
Mind Erasure
 
StellarKnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Lost...In a Lost World
StellarKnight is a Supporting Member
StellarKnight is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
StellarKnight has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
These are career jobs that are being slashed in pay and benefits, with the pay dropping by 50%(!) to reach $25k -- after 15 years of employment in this career. This is economic disaster for workers and the country at large.

This is not at all the same thing as a $25k entry-level or early career job. For those saying they would like this $25k/yr job, realize that you can't even have it -- you would need years of experience to get you to the bakery's top scale wage!
You should have spelled this out initially because your argument seems to spring from this point. The American dream isn't to hover around poverty levels after 15 years of steady employment with a single employer, and the American dream most certainly isn't having your wages halved after years of diligence and loyalty to such an employer.
__________________
Evil presupposes a moral decision, intention, and some forethought. A moron doesn't stop to think or reason. He acts on instinct, like a stable animal, convinced he's doing good, that he's always right, and sanctimoniously proud to go around ****ing up . . .What the world needs is more thoroughly evil people and fewer idiot ****heads.
StellarKnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 06:17 PM #130
drgonzo
Half-cocked
 
drgonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by StellarKnight View Post
You should have spelled this out initially because your argument seems to spring from this point. The American dream isn't to hover around poverty levels after 15 years of steady employment with a single employer, and the American dream most certainly isn't having your wages halved after years of diligence and loyalty to such an employer.
It is spelled out clearly in the article I posted, but I can only assume the youth and inexperience of the responders kept them from noticing and realizing it. When you actually have worked at least that long, you have some appreciation for what a disaster this is, and you don't miss things like careers being destroyed and pensions being stolen.

If you notice I did point out more than once that these were career jobs, but it is apparently meaningless to people who have not had careers.
__________________
PUMPPB.COM - Pump paintball forums
HawaiiPB.com - Paintball forums for the state of Hawaii
HawaiiPB/PumpPB - Our videos | Droidtiles.com - NFC Tags for Android and mobile devices
drgonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 06:24 PM #131
Treghc
 
 
Treghc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle
Treghc is a Supporting Member
Treghc is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Treghc is a Forum Captain
None of those definitions directly translate to what you're interpretation of the American Dream is. You're really only proving my point. Freedom, equality, opportunity, and egalitarianism are all key words used in those definitions. Words which you did not use; you used an example of certain social or economic prowess. Even those terms are completely subjective per individual case.

Quote:
What you said there is horse****. The American Dream is a range, but it is a consistent concept. Material prosperity has always been a hallmark of the American Dream. It is not completely subjective as you are trying to say. Moneyed interests would like you to believe that, and your believing it is a problem. When material prosperity is forgotten out of the American Dream, 1) those who would take your prosperity for themselves win, and 2) America as a whole loses.
Material prosperity has not always been the hallmark of the American Dream. The industrial revolution definitely changed the older cultural structure of America, but America was much more deeply rooted in things outside the realm of material value from its start up.

Quote:
What? I said nothing even close to that. Why make stuff up?
I'm not saying you said that. I'm saying what you said is just as absurd as what I said. It's an ad hoc argument and useless to use.

Quote:
It is vitally important that you put the $25k/yr figure into context. These are career jobs that are being slashed in pay and benefits, with the pay dropping by 50%(!) to reach $25k -- after 15 years of employment in this career. This is economic disaster for workers and the country at large.

This is not at all the same thing as a $25k entry-level or early career job. For those saying they would like this $25k/yr job, realize that you can't even have it -- you would need years of experience to get you to the bakery's top scale wage!
... James stated he's in school. $25k/yr in his current position would be entry...
__________________
“But men, they say a lot of foolish things. In the end, the only words I can find to believe in are mine." - Joe

Tarsier Slave


We are Sapien
Treghc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 06:34 PM #132
drgonzo
Half-cocked
 
drgonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
None of those definitions directly translate to what you're interpretation of the American Dream is. You're really only proving my point. Freedom, equality, opportunity, and egalitarianism are all key words used in those definitions. Words which you did not use; you used an example of certain social or economic prowess. Even those terms are completely subjective per individual case.
I stand by the evidence I've posted. It's pretty clear. Objective readers can judge for themselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
Material prosperity has not always been the hallmark of the American Dream. The industrial revolution definitely changed the older cultural structure of America, but America was much more deeply rooted in things outside the realm of material value from its start up.
I see your problem, you don't know the history of the term. The term "American Dream" was born at the tail end of the Depression era, when people regained the promise of what America meant. It does NOT date back to the start of the country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
I'm not saying you said that. I'm saying what you said is just as absurd as what I said. It's an ad hoc argument and useless to use.
Only if English no longer applies. You said I said that, especially because you structured your response the same way I structured mine. I did say that those people basically said what I said. And they did. I stand by what I said and it is accurate. You made a completely false point in a weak attempt to use my language construction against me, and thus failed miserably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
... James stated he's in school. $25k/yr in his current position would be entry...
And he's responding to an article about career jobs. So he's off the mark, as I said.
__________________
PUMPPB.COM - Pump paintball forums
HawaiiPB.com - Paintball forums for the state of Hawaii
HawaiiPB/PumpPB - Our videos | Droidtiles.com - NFC Tags for Android and mobile devices
drgonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 06:48 PM #133
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
I disagree with the American Dream in its entirety, but I won't debate the fact that the phrase does entail a specific meaning, one which Gonzo sourced most accurately.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 07:18 PM #134
jamest91
 
 
jamest91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SoCal
jamest91 helped look for balloons
jamest91 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
jamest91 is for the Gunfight
jamest91 supports Sherwood Forest
So gonzo you are saying that because I am in school, I am not allowed to want a job that has an 8-4 shift monday through friday and attend school at night once I am off because it is a career position? Because it is not the job that I am going/went to school for, I should not be allowed to take the job, although it is double my current pay and gives better benefits?

And by career position you mean standing next to a conveyor belt and watching things go by, making sure they're not defective?
__________________
STAY GOLD
jamest91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 08:24 PM #135
Treghc
 
 
Treghc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle
Treghc is a Supporting Member
Treghc is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Treghc is a Forum Captain
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
I see your problem, you don't know the history of the term. The term "American Dream" was born at the tail end of the Depression era, when people regained the promise of what America meant. It does NOT date back to the start of the country.
I've heard the term used every which way for stories and descriptions dating from the founding of this country. But you're right, I don't know the literal creation of it because I never much cared about it, so I will surrender that.

At the same time, I must ask you if and why an American needs to express and hold on to that view point to begin with.

Quote:
Only if English no longer applies. You said I said that, especially because you structured your response the same way I structured mine. I did say that those people basically said what I said. And they did. I stand by what I said and it is accurate. You made a completely false point in a weak attempt to use my language construction against me, and thus failed miserably.
Semantics. Your assumption of my statement is wrong.

Quote:
And he's responding to an article about career jobs. So he's off the mark, as I said.
I'm not criticizing his view of the article and/or event this thread is about. I'm criticizing your statements and view of him for wanting a better paying job than he currently has.
__________________
“But men, they say a lot of foolish things. In the end, the only words I can find to believe in are mine." - Joe

Tarsier Slave


We are Sapien
Treghc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 09:00 PM #136
drgonzo
Half-cocked
 
drgonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
Semantics. Your assumption of my statement is wrong.
My assumption can't be wrong since your statement was a deliberate copy of mine. It is incumbent on YOU to get MY original meaning correct, if the retort is to work. You didn't, and as a result it didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
I'm not criticizing his view of the article and/or event this thread is about. I'm criticizing your statements and view of him for wanting a better paying job than he currently has.
Your understanding of what I said is faulty, that's on you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamest91 View Post
So gonzo you are saying that because I am in school, I am not allowed to want a job that has an 8-4 shift monday through friday and attend school at night once I am off because it is a career position? Because it is not the job that I am going/went to school for, I should not be allowed to take the job, although it is double my current pay and gives better benefits?
Quick labor education: Yes, generally you don't go to school full time and pursue a full time career at the same time. But to the point, you could not get that pay scale because you would be coming in as an entry level worker. That pay -- all of $25k -- was going to be the top scale in the bakery. That means the MOST experienced workers would get that rate.

That S-U-C-K-S.
__________________
PUMPPB.COM - Pump paintball forums
HawaiiPB.com - Paintball forums for the state of Hawaii
HawaiiPB/PumpPB - Our videos | Droidtiles.com - NFC Tags for Android and mobile devices
drgonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 09:03 PM #137
benji25
Legen (wait for it) Dary
 
benji25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Twin Cities
benji25 is a Moderator
benji25 is BST Trusted
benji25 donated to help Peyton Trent
benji25 is playing at Living Legends V
benji25 posts videos on PbNation
benji25 supports our troops
benji25 has perfected Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo

My assumption can't be wrong since it was patterned exactly like mine. It is incumbent on YOU to get MY original meaning correct, if the retort is to work. You didn't, and as a result it didn't.

Your understanding of what I said is faulty, that's on you.

Quick labor education: Yes, generally you don't go to school full time and pursue a full time career at the same time. But to the point, you could not get that pay scale because you would be coming in as an entry level worker. That pay -- all of $25k -- was going to be the top scale in the bakery. That means the MOST experienced workers would get that rate.

That S-U-C-K-S.
$11 an hour to mass produce pastries seems about right to me. It has to be a pretty automated process so I don't see why they should get paid that much. I mean I doubt the hand fill every Twinkie.
benji25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 09:05 PM #138
Treghc
 
 
Treghc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle
Treghc is a Supporting Member
Treghc is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Treghc is a Forum Captain
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
My assumption can't be wrong since your statement was a deliberate copy of mine. It is incumbent on YOU to get MY original meaning correct, if the retort is to work. You didn't, and as a result it didn't.

Your understanding of what I said is faulty, that's on you.
Mind explaining then?
__________________
“But men, they say a lot of foolish things. In the end, the only words I can find to believe in are mine." - Joe

Tarsier Slave


We are Sapien
Treghc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 09:06 PM #139
drgonzo
Half-cocked
 
drgonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
Mind explaining then?
Already done several times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benji25 View Post
$11 an hour to mass produce pastries seems about right to me. It has to be a pretty automated process so I don't see why they should get paid that much. I mean I doubt the hand fill every Twinkie.
Show your work.
__________________
PUMPPB.COM - Pump paintball forums
HawaiiPB.com - Paintball forums for the state of Hawaii
HawaiiPB/PumpPB - Our videos | Droidtiles.com - NFC Tags for Android and mobile devices
drgonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 09:10 PM #140
jamest91
 
 
jamest91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SoCal
jamest91 helped look for balloons
jamest91 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
jamest91 is for the Gunfight
jamest91 supports Sherwood Forest
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
My assumption can't be wrong since your statement was a deliberate copy of mine. It is incumbent on YOU to get MY original meaning correct, if the retort is to work. You didn't, and as a result it didn't.



Your understanding of what I said is faulty, that's on you.



Quick labor education: Yes, generally you don't go to school full time and pursue a full time career at the same time. But to the point, you could not get that pay scale because you would be coming in as an entry level worker. That pay -- all of $25k -- was going to be the top scale in the bakery. That means the MOST experienced workers would get that rate.

That S-U-C-K-S.
I don't really see why standing there and staring at twinkies go down the line all day deserves a pay raise or making any more than 25-30k/yr. I probably do more work at my job than the employees of the bakers union and I get far far less benefits and make 1/2 what they would be cut to after a couple years.

Our department managers only make about $13 or $14/hr. I never hear anyone complaining about needing more money or benefits or anything. A majority of the employees at my store also come from jobs that went away during the recession that paid them much more than they make now. Then again, we aren't unionized.
__________________
STAY GOLD
jamest91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 09:11 PM #141
benji25
Legen (wait for it) Dary
 
benji25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Twin Cities
benji25 is a Moderator
benji25 is BST Trusted
benji25 donated to help Peyton Trent
benji25 is playing at Living Legends V
benji25 posts videos on PbNation
benji25 supports our troops
benji25 has perfected Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo

Already done several times.

Show your work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hef0gCnTHxE&sns=em
benji25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 09:40 PM #142
drgonzo
Half-cocked
 
drgonzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamest91 View Post
I don't really see why standing there and staring at twinkies go down the line all day deserves a pay raise or making any more than 25-30k/yr. I probably do more work at my job than the employees of the bakers union and I get far far less benefits and make 1/2 what they would be cut to after a couple years.

Our department managers only make about $13 or $14/hr. I never hear anyone complaining about needing more money or benefits or anything. A majority of the employees at my store also come from jobs that went away during the recession that paid them much more than they make now. Then again, we aren't unionized.
Exhibit A of what's wrong with the country. There is so much wrong and disheartening about what you said above, and the saddest thing is you don't even know it. In fact you'll get mad because someone else tries to teach you.

The long and short of it is, if everyone has this attitude, America is ****ed. We live and die by our working class and if our working class consents to wage slavery, it's all over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benji25 View Post
At this point I rest my case. There is no honest discussion going on here, no one is looking at the big picture, no one is doing any intellectual work. If you are going to justify destroying middle class wages, you damn well better have some ****ing work to show that you put an ounce of real thought into your positions.

Taking positions based on brainless ideological talking points and emotional manipulations is the road to disaster.
__________________
PUMPPB.COM - Pump paintball forums
HawaiiPB.com - Paintball forums for the state of Hawaii
HawaiiPB/PumpPB - Our videos | Droidtiles.com - NFC Tags for Android and mobile devices
drgonzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 10:17 PM #143
benji25
Legen (wait for it) Dary
 
benji25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Twin Cities
benji25 is a Moderator
benji25 is BST Trusted
benji25 donated to help Peyton Trent
benji25 is playing at Living Legends V
benji25 posts videos on PbNation
benji25 supports our troops
benji25 has perfected Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo

Exhibit A of what's wrong with the country. There is so much wrong and disheartening about what you said above, and the saddest thing is you don't even know it. In fact you'll get mad because someone else tries to teach you.

The long and short of it is, if everyone has this attitude, America is ****ed. We live and die by our working class and if our working class consents to wage slavery, it's all over.

At this point I rest my case. There is no honest discussion going on here, no one is looking at the big picture, no one is doing any intellectual work. If you are going to justify destroying middle class wages, you damn well better have some ****ing work to show that you put an ounce of real thought into your positions.

Taking positions based on brainless ideological talking points and emotional manipulations is the road to disaster.
I am strictly talking about hostess bakers so I don't know what "big picture" you think I am referring to.
benji25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 10:36 PM #144
jamest91
 
 
jamest91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SoCal
jamest91 helped look for balloons
jamest91 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
jamest91 is for the Gunfight
jamest91 supports Sherwood Forest
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
Exhibit A of what's wrong with the country. There is so much wrong and disheartening about what you said above, and the saddest thing is you don't even know it. In fact you'll get mad because someone else tries to teach you.

The long and short of it is, if everyone has this attitude, America is ****ed. We live and die by our working class and if our working class consents to wage slavery, it's all over.



At this point I rest my case. There is no honest discussion going on here, no one is looking at the big picture, no one is doing any intellectual work. If you are going to justify destroying middle class wages, you damn well better have some ****ing work to show that you put an ounce of real thought into your positions.

Taking positions based on brainless ideological talking points and emotional manipulations is the road to disaster.
So now we know why businesses and everything else is not created in America. Why? Because people like gonzo think every worker doesn't make enough, no matter what the skillset (or lack thereof) is required to perform the job.

Here is the big picture gonzo:

1) American workers want more money.
2) Business pays more wages, but raises prices to make up for cost.
3) Consumer moves their business to cheaper, but almost identical product.
4) Business loses money and must cut costs or goes under.

As a consumer, I can vouch for this very simply "big picture," as I am sure everyone else here can as well.

Let's take my job for example. We sell 2 pairs of jeans. One is made in America and the price is $75-$100. The 2nd jean is made in another country and is sold for $17-$25.

Now gonzo, I would like for you to guess which jean sells the most and which jean hasn't sold a single unit, but probably will sell out once we put them on clearance for less money. Take your time as this is a hard concept to grasp.
__________________
STAY GOLD
jamest91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 10:44 PM #145
SniperForce-Duffek
Delta Farce
 
SniperForce-Duffek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
SniperForce-Duffek plays in the APPA D5 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
While there is no one definition of American Dream, the definitions all center around social and economic mobility, certain societal values, and a certain standard of living.

You can't say that the American Dream is being single and subsisting on a poverty-level income (or perhaps to use a concept you may find more relatable, on welfare) simply because one person aspires to that. That's effectively what you are doing here.

Come to think of it, quite to the contrary of claims, our two friends above, in fact, literally depict what is wrong with this country. The American Dream has become so elusive that people actually aspire to poor wages and living alone or childless in poor areas of the country. That is both sad and illustrative.



I wish what I was saying was foolish or ignorant. Unfortunately it is hard-learned truth. Rather, your outlook represents ignorance that is actually damaging to the country. Have some respect for yourself and your generation. Learn your history, figure out what happened, and demand better.



Edit: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8AL02N20121122

Quote:
"I really can't afford to not be working, but this is not worth it. I'd rather go work somewhere else or draw unemployment," said Johnson, a worker at Hostess for 23 years.
I really dig the mindset: They don't pay me enough so I'd rather not work and collect unemployment instead. Nation of handouts.
__________________
Kick *** military apparel _ Mars Strategic

"May god have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't."
G.S.P

Last edited by SniperForce-Duffek : 11-21-2012 at 10:50 PM.
SniperForce-Duffek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2012, 11:34 PM #146
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperForce-Duffek View Post


Edit: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8AL02N20121122



I really dig the mindset: They don't pay me enough so I'd rather not work and collect unemployment instead. Nation of handouts.
I don't understand this distinction between Europe and America. This country is English in attitude, as is most of Europe.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 01:18 AM #147
SniperForce-Duffek
Delta Farce
 
SniperForce-Duffek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
SniperForce-Duffek plays in the APPA D5 division
I did a 6 page report on the further breakdown. I'll wait for my grade before I break it down so I don't look like a fool if I'm wrong. :p
__________________
Kick *** military apparel _ Mars Strategic

"May god have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't."
G.S.P
SniperForce-Duffek is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump