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Old 11-17-2012, 04:43 AM #64
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That's also why we have to pay for a $68 billion train.
not just any train.... this train leads to nowhere!!
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:12 AM #65
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If anyone bothered to read the financial article I posted above, you'd see Hostess was pretty much a sinking ship already. They wanted to keep hanging on by fleecing the workers more and more and the workers basically decided they weren't going to take it. The asset purchaser will probably employ many if not all of the former workers, and they may be similarly screwed over but at least they didn't slit their own throats. Sometimes you have to stand and fight.
Fleecing...oh for the ...

Ok son let me wake you up here because that rose colored world you live in, is not the real world. Unions, all unions, are corupt, more corupt than any company could ever be. In this case, the unions were unwilling to flex any at all, because they were more conserned about keeping fat, than saving the very company that put money in their pockets. Hostess was sinking because sales are down, because the way people eat is starting to change.

So lets see, they "stood and fought" and now, they are out of jobs. Most the current speculation is any company that picks up the Hostess name, is more than likely going to hire in NON-union workers.

In the end, I say, good job, one less union shop. Now lets hope other companies wake up and see the way to get rid of unions.
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Old 11-17-2012, 07:14 AM #66
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I always thought the companies purpose was to make profit, not to owe people an employment?
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:20 PM #67
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Dr G - the Teamsters were OK with the new contract stipulations, the bakers union wasn't. So... half the unions were OK with being fleeced?
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:48 PM #68
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Dr G - the Teamsters were OK with the new contract stipulations, the bakers union wasn't. So... half the unions were OK with being fleeced?
Each union negotiates contracts separately, so there's nothing at all weird about that. If you've ever worked in a multi-union shop you'd know that different unions have different concerns.

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I always thought the companies purpose was to make profit, not to owe people an employment?
Personally I think this paradigm needs to die if America is to regain its greatness. Employment is perhaps the single most important issue to a great society and economy. The function of business as employer -- and thus, generator of consumers -- is hugely, hugely overlooked in modern political economics.
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Old 11-17-2012, 02:47 PM #69
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Yet your team does nearly every thing it can to hold down people trying to open a new business.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:02 PM #70
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Holy hell, can we not have have politics thread that makes me lose more brain cells reading it than watching honey boo boo?


Anyways, on a very simple level, every time I went into a convenience store lately, a Hostess product is priced at double the price of a small donut. Nothing they make seemed better than the donuts they make for the gas stations here, so why would you pay double for a couple twinkies?

That's a very simplistic point, but I think it's relevant.
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:28 PM #71
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So why is this a political topic? Hostess has had 6 CEO's in 8 years and has filed bankruptcy, what, twice since 2004?

Has anyone in this thread even attempted to causally link the baker's union to the closure of Hostess?
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Old 11-17-2012, 08:43 PM #72
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Breitbart doesn't have an article about that.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:19 PM #73
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Breitbart doesn't have an article about that.
The Wall Street Journal did, back in April: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...408358100.html

Quote:
Hostess, founded as a bread maker in 1930, has to contend with a particularly cumbersome work force, a legacy of how it was built through acquisitions since the 1960s. As it gobbled up bakeries across the country, Hostess wound up with 372 collective-bargaining agreements, 40 multi-employer pension plans, 5,500 delivery routes and a vast production system.

During its first trip through Chapter 11, Hostess tried restricting costs by getting labor concessions that changed how products were delivered in some markets and reduced workers' base pay, saving the company roughly $80 million a year. A spokesman for Hostess said most drivers have recovered their lost base pay "and then some because of price increases and higher route volume."
...................................

Analysts say the previous changes didn't go far enough to compete with rivals. Hostess's work rules require workers to deliver bread and cakes on separate trucks, adding additional costs. Today, selling, delivery and administrative costs eat up 43% of Hostess's sales, compared with 36% at rival Flowers Foods Inc., FLO +10.17% maker of Nature's Own bread and Tastykake Krimpets.

"Other companies operate lean models, investing in bakeries to automate them" and "rely less on human labor," says Akshay Jagdale, an analyst with KeyBanc Capital Markets. Hostess couldn't do so, he said, because, "you can't make investments when you're barely hanging on."
...but on the side of the Unions:

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Hostess was slow to update old production systems and keep pace with competitors offering newer, healthier foods, in part because of its inability to invest.

Hostess posted an unaudited loss of about $341 million on roughly $2.5 billion in sales in the year ended last May. Though Americans are keen to talk about Twinkies—which have gained an aura of mythical, if kitschy, indestructibility—they seemed less interested in eating them. Unit sales of the snack were flat in the 52 weeks ending Feb. 19, according to SymphonyIRI Group, a Chicago-based market research firm.

To appeal to more health-conscious Americans, Hostess launched a line of whole-grain breads called Nature's Pride that the company says has been selling well, but it is a small product line compared with rival offerings.
I think it's safe to say it was a combination of factors.
The Teamsters said that the BCTGMIU should have been more flexible, but maybe they're just throwing the smaller union under the bus.

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Old 11-17-2012, 09:28 PM #74
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Stop it with your factual evidence and start ranting randomly about the liberals and how Obama has apparently been sneaking out fruit pies and snowballs out of their factories to the effect of bankrupting Hostess.


Also, are these people actually paying when they win these auctions? In two months if that, the aisles will be full of twinkies.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trks...at=0&_from=R40
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:53 PM #75
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Originally Posted by The Inflicted View Post
The Wall Street Journal did, back in April: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...408358100.html



...but on the side of the Unions:



I think it's safe to say it was a combination of factors.
The Teamsters said that the BCTGMIU should have been more flexible, but maybe they're just throwing the smaller union under the bus.

[]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag_cy8rFn1U[/]
Just letting you know I'm reposting this elsewhere. I've been looking for a good analysis of the situation and you've provided.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:01 PM #76
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That video was made in the 80's, right?
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:04 PM #77
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The WSJ will be running an article on American companies in the same situation Hostess found itself in. Should run the first week in December. Sure it'll be an interesting read.
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:16 PM #78
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I only hear and see the bad from unions. I know their purpose, but how do you keep them from gaining too much control and ruining companies?
Close your company...thats how
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:51 PM #79
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8AI0XS20121119

hostess exec's trying to loot company
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:51 PM #80
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Originally Posted by licence2kill View Post
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8AI0XS20121119

hostess exec's trying to loot company
How do you "loot" something that's already yours?
I can understand the union's objection to the bonuses, but this company is going to need to liquidate itself sooner or later and these assets are depreciating already. At this point, the union may just be acting out of spite.

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Old 11-19-2012, 11:19 PM #81
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What else would you call exorbitant raises and benefits for management as the company is going bankrupt? Like American Airlines, management has no incentive to merge or sell the company to sustain operations.

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Old 11-19-2012, 11:36 PM #82
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What else would you call exorbitant raises and benefits for management as the company is going bankrupt? Like American Airlines, management has no incentive to merge or sell the company to sustain operations.
Not sure what you mean by "merge or sell the company to sustain operations."

Over the last several years, Hostess tried, repeatedly, to spin off various chunks of their empire but no one was willing to take the union supplier and delivery contracts that would necessarily come with them.

As for the management raises, supposedly:

Quote:
Brian Driscoll, CEO, around $750,000 to $2,550,000
Gary Wandschneider, EVP, $500,000 to $900,000
John Stewart, EVP, $400,000 to $700,000
David Loeser, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256
Kent Magill, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256
Richard Seban, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256
John Akeson, SVP, $300,000 to $480,000
Steven Birgfeld, SVP, $240,000 to $360,000
Martha Ross, SVP, $240,000 to $360,000
Rob Kissick, SVP, $182,000 to $273,008
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:45 PM #83
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The Teamsters, which represents 7,900 Hostess workers, said the company's plan would improperly cut the ability of remaining workers to use sick days and vacation.
Seriously? Welcome to the real world where you can't just call in sick to work. Join the club of people who don't like it. There are millions of us.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:02 AM #84
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Seriously? Welcome to the real world where you can't just call in sick to work. Join the club of people who don't like it. There are millions of us.
Oh no!! I'm so glad I get the privilege of being able to use sick days and paid vacation time.

err no wait........ i cant


seriously this is why i hate unions.
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