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Old 12-06-2012, 06:16 PM #1
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"That which governs best governs least"

I'd like to see what the intelligent people of STs view on this statement is. Henry David Thoreau is believed to have said it first, Mr. Thomas Jefferson made it more famous (from what I read).

Do you agree? Disagree? Why or why not? What is "best", or what is an ideal society? (surely noone will say it is this... chaotic, ego ridden, animalistic, ungodly type we have instilled)

Personally:

Yes, this is statement is probably true

While looking it up, I found this:

"It is not true that that government is best which is best administered — it is a sophism invented by tyranny to quiet the inquisitive mind; a good administration is at best but a temporary palliative to a bad government, but it does not alter its nature."

-William Penn (whoever that old fart is)

so....dig in boys

Last edited by Dynamopbers : 12-06-2012 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:51 PM #2
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Henry David Thoreau is believed to have said it first, Mr. Thomas Jefferson made it more famous (from what I read). -William Penn (whoever that old fart is)
Thoreau is a boss. Jefferson is a hack. William Penn is the Penn in Pennsylvania. Not much of a thinker though.

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Do you agree? Disagree? Why or why not? What is "best", or what is an ideal society? (surely noone will say it is this... chaotic, ego ridden, animalistic, ungodly type we
I'm gonna lean Aristotle when it comes to PolTheory. The government which governs best is that which governs with the best interests its citizens in mind instead of its rulers. The government which governs best strives for the common good.



I am at work and to be frank me and martian just has this discussion (in the hamas thread if interested) so I wanted to leave this here but I will probably drop out so others can make their arguments. I am interested in what some other people in this forum will say.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:07 PM #3
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True to a certain extent, obviously if the government doesn't do anything it's no good but you can't have them governing every aspect of the citizen's lives.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:10 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamopbers View Post
I'd like to see what the intelligent people of STs view on this statement is. Henry David Thoreau is believed to have said it first, Mr. Thomas Jefferson made it more famous (from what I read).
Jefferson died like a decade after Thoreau was born, I think.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:27 PM #5
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I agree, which is one of the main reasons why Obama is so terrible.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:30 PM #6
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True to a certain extent, obviously if the government doesn't do anything it's no good but you can't have them governing every aspect of the citizen's lives.
England seems to be trying.
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:39 PM #7
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England seems to be trying.
I didn't mean they literally can't. The DPRK is doing a pretty damn good job. It's just not an optimal governing system IMHO.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:28 AM #8
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I'm a little burnt out on the "role of government" topic. If you want my full and comprehensive opinion, look at my avatar.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:52 AM #9
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Well when it comes to eviromental, worker, and public safety issues history has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Governing less is definately not the Governing best.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:14 AM #10
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Well when it comes to environmental, worker, and public safety issues history has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Governing less is definitely not the Governing best.
You, sir, do not get a cigar.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:26 PM #11
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You, sir, do not get a cigar.
Why do you say that?
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:39 PM #12
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History hasn't show that less government is worse, it has shown that when government doesn't do what it is supposed to do (what is has been charged with) then bad things happen.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:23 PM #13
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History hasn't show that less government is worse, it has shown that when government doesn't do what it is supposed to do (what is has been charged with) then bad things happen.
Such as aiming for the common good, when the good is defined by the common?
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:01 PM #14
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Well when it comes to eviromental, worker, and public safety issues history has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Governing less is definately not the Governing best.
Even in the case of pollution, governing to the least extent possible while protecting the rights of citizens is still best. There's no need for thousands of pages of Byzantine rules or massive bureaucracies to enforce them. Besides, pollution and safety issues boil down to personal and property rights at their core.
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Old 12-08-2012, 03:16 AM #15
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Such as aiming for the common good, when the good is defined by the common?
Haha, that will only happen when you take money out of politics. Then the status quo politicians like obama and pals will be filtered out, and we'd be left with people who want to actually improve the country not for money and power, but because they actually care.
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:12 PM #16
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Haha, that will only happen when you take money out of politics. Then the status quo politicians like obama and pals will be filtered out, and we'd be left with people who want to actually improve the country not for money and power, but because they actually care.
I was asking a question. I'll rephrase.

Is government no longer doing its job when it lets the common good be defined by what the common man wants?
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:28 PM #17
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no, its just become a rabble-rousing democracy
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:46 PM #18
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Is government no longer doing its job when it lets the common good be defined by what the common man wants?
This question should really have an entire thread devoted to debate. Thoreau had quite a bit to say about this very idea (or rather, the utility of determining the wants of the masses).
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:14 PM #19
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This question should really have an entire thread devoted to debate. Thoreau had quite a bit to say about this very idea (or rather, the utility of determining the wants of the masses).
Start it up!
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Old 12-11-2012, 05:01 PM #20
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Even in the case of pollution, governing to the least extent possible while protecting the rights of citizens is still best. There's no need for thousands of pages of Byzantine rules or massive bureaucracies to enforce them. Besides, pollution and safety issues boil down to personal and property rights at their core.
Sorry I've been gone for a few days...

I would disagree with stand point on the grounds that even the most draconian EPA policies we currently have where not creatated in advance of disaster but as a result of one. Becuase disasters and mistakes have been made the federal government has had to constanly expand the scope of its governing to prevent similar disasters from occuring.

TLDR version... Governing least can not keep pace with our ever increasing ways of poisiong ourselves and our enviroment. Therefore Government has had to constantly expand the scope and size of its governing to keep up.
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Old 12-11-2012, 05:42 PM #21
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Sorry I've been gone for a few days...

I would disagree with stand point on the grounds that even the most draconian EPA policies we currently have where not creatated in advance of disaster but as a result of one. Becuase disasters and mistakes have been made the federal government has had to constanly expand the scope of its governing to prevent similar disasters from occuring.

TLDR version... Governing least can not keep pace with our ever increasing ways of poisiong ourselves and our enviroment. Therefore Government has had to constantly expand the scope and size of its governing to keep up.
I think you hit the nail on the head without even knowing it. Scope and size. Right now, for our current form of government, we're to big... Blown way out of scope, do we have these problems. Someone in California doesn't know how to best farm in Missouri, not does someone in Connecticut best know how to X in new Mexico.
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