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Old 11-20-2012, 10:04 PM #127
AlphaNeo36
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Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I couldn't possibly be saying you shouldn't source known reporting bias in a conflict as polar as Israel-Palestine. The funny thing is I'm not even saying you're wrong. What you said was interesting but you just can't seem to provide a source outside a Palestinian apologist.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:25 PM #128
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Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I couldn't possibly be saying you shouldn't source known reporting bias in a conflict as polar as Israel-Palestine. The funny thing is I'm not even saying you're wrong. What you said was interesting but you just can't seem to provide a source outside a Palestinian apologist.
And I'm saying that you're looking at this wrong. You're diagnosing a symptom and not the cause. Rather than crying wolf at him for thinking a way, I'm trying to point out why he would think that way. Rather than dismissing someone because of what side they take, I'm trying to get you to understand why they take that side.

It's hard to be bias in the reporting of actual events. Things like Israeli medics waiting for hours to take a woman to the hospital without reason holds no bias in reporting.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:51 PM #129
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Then you should cite examples rather than telling people to read a slanted reporter that does things like this.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:39 AM #130
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If the occupation of Gaza and the expansion of Israel didn't begin until after the Arabs attacked, whet exactly is the problem here? Why are we bothering with a state that wasn't declared until what, 42? A few Arab states even refused to recognize the legitimacy of the Palestinian state.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:59 AM #131
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If the occupation of Gaza and the expansion of Israel didn't begin until after the Arabs attacked, whet exactly is the problem here? Why are we bothering with a state that wasn't declared until what, 42? A few Arab states even refused to recognize the legitimacy of the Palestinian state.
Because the other Arabs look at them as scum, and the Persians look at all Arabs as scum. No one wanted to take in or assist the refugees. Of course, they can rally around a good Jew hating, and if "Palestinians" provide the excuse...

The Yishuv in that area have been fighting Arabs since at least the 1920 riots.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:39 AM #132
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Because the other Arabs look at them as scum, and the Persians look at all Arabs as scum. No one wanted to take in or assist the refugees. Of course, they can rally around a good Jew hating, and if "Palestinians" provide the excuse...

The Yishuv in that area have been fighting Arabs since at least the 1920 riots.
Well yes, I am aware that the Palestinians are used as a proxy for the Arab nations. I'm curious why we should care? Are there not plenty of land disputes across the globe? Why is this particular instance important?

We created the state of Israel, but, that does not make us obligated to resolve all disputes that arise. If you argue we have a moral responsibility, then I'll ask why are we not responding to other, arguably more severe, disputes?
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:42 AM #133
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Well yes, I am aware that the Palestinians are used as a proxy for the Arab nations. I'm curious why we should care? Are there not plenty of land disputes across the globe? Why is this particular instance important?

We created the state of Israel, but, that does not make us obligated to resolve all disputes that arise. If you argue we have a moral responsibility, then I'll ask why are we not responding to other, arguably more severe, disputes?
The Jews created Israel for themselves. The UN gave it the thumbs up, but no one did anything about it. The Yishuv fought for their land, defeated the Arabs, and established a nation using weapons acquired with funds from private individuals and manufactured themselves. To say the US or anyone else "created" Israel is nonsense.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:06 AM #134
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The Jews created Israel for themselves. The UN gave it the thumbs up, but no one did anything about it. The Yishuv fought for their land, defeated the Arabs, and established a nation using weapons acquired with funds from private individuals and manufactured themselves. To say the US or anyone else "created" Israel is nonsense.
I was told it was the creation of the UN. I suppose that is in part true. Anyway. I'm not super familiar with the history. I'm looking for a reason that any of this requires US involvement. From what you're telling me, there's no damn good reason to suggest it does.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:06 AM #135
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Actually... GB initially created Israel, Palestine then. After WWII, BG gave up with their colonizing efforts and the UN tried to broker a 3 state deal: Arabs state, Jewish state, and Jerusalem separate and independent. The Arabs said "No way", had a strike, a riot, then a civil war which resulted in them being kicked out of the party. Jews said "My house" and the state of Israel was officially born.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:48 AM #136
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We care because we feel bad about the Holocaust, as do many of the member nations of the UN. Now, though, Israel is starting to go even more crazy and paranoid, and it's support system is going to drop away, making them worse. I'm very afraid that Israel's nukes are going to come out.

My analysis, anyway.
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:55 PM #137
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Nukes will not be launched, they are only sought after and used as a deterrent. Cut back on the science fiction dude.
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:00 PM #138
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A deterrent? Usually, when people are thinking clearly and rationally. Now they're feeling alone and outnumbered and could start to panic if they are continually attacked. I wouldn't put it past the Israelis to drop a couple of nukes in an emergency.
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:22 PM #139
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You are talking out of your ***, brochacho.
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:01 PM #140
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You are talking out of your ***, brochacho.
.

But u never know with those zionist scum.
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:44 PM #141
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.

But u never know with those zionist scum.
So its safe to lump you in with the suicide terrorist loving islamic lovers (that would be ALL islamic btw)
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Old 11-21-2012, 04:00 PM #142
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Oh look. Overbear is saying something stupid again.
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:35 PM #143
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The only situation I can see Israel needing to use a nuclear weapon is to destroy an Iranian enrichment center deep underground. Even then, that need is insanely drastic.
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Old 11-22-2012, 03:41 PM #144
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I wouldn't put it past the Israelis to drop a couple of nukes in an emergency.
The nukes don't come out until the mainland has been overrun or destroyed. That's when submarines launch and strike back against every nation involved. Until then, you won't see them deployed because they will likely result in the withdrawal of any support Israel receives from the international community.
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Old 11-22-2012, 03:56 PM #145
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So its safe to lump you in with the suicide terrorist loving islamic lovers (that would be ALL islamic btw)
Blah blah blah im a nazi-jew zionist murderer blah blah
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Old 11-22-2012, 06:00 PM #146
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The nukes don't come out until the mainland has been overrun or destroyed. That's when submarines launch and strike back against every nation involved. Until then, you won't see them deployed because they will likely result in the withdrawal of any support Israel receives from the international community.
That's how the US does it, but Israel doesn't have all that many submarines. Most of their nukes are tactical, air dropped bombs.
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Old 11-23-2012, 01:40 AM #147
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That's how the US does it, but Israel doesn't have all that many submarines. Most of their nukes are tactical, air dropped bombs.
The 4 submarines officially declared to exist are said to carry up to 13 torpedo tube-launched missiles. The standard policy of American submarines is rumored to be a minimum of 6 conventional torpedoes, which means we can presume for the sake of conversation that there are approximately 7 missiles aboard each sub. That's 28 missiles, which could potentially have multiple warheads per unit. I think it's safe to say that Israel could wipe quite a few cities off the map in the event that the surrounding countries are dumb enough to launch a full scale invasion or assault. This is all predicated on the assumption that we or other Israeli allies have not covertly provided them with more advanced weapons and/or vessels capable of far greater destruction.

Given the trouble the middle east has given this country, it would not be beyond the realm of possibilities for us to have provided Israel with advanced short to medium range nuclear weapons of the sub-based variety. In the event that Israel is defeated on the mainland, they could do our dirty work from the sea and attack our enemies without us firing a shot. Either Israel is left standing as our one stable ally in the region, or they die and take our enemies with them. We win both ways.
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