[Maximum Liberty]

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

That's awfully unamerican of you.

America is her people. There is only such a thing as not-american.

[TheSilentAssassin]

Originally Posted by Maximum Liberty

America is her people. There is only such a thing as not-american.

Fine, Mr. Semantics. It goes against the founding principles of this nation.

Also: is this someone's new account or are you new? i like to know who I am talking to.

[SniperForce-Duffek]

Originally Posted by Pump Revolution

The people of Saudi Arabia don't get to choose how they're governed, the royal family rules them. There have never been any national elections in SA.

Did you get lost on the way to the fitness forum?

[Treghc]

Originally Posted by Maximum Liberty

America is her people. There is only such a thing as not-american.

I have a feeling you're someone playing devil's advocate.

[Maximum Liberty]

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

Fine, Mr. Semantics. It goes against the founding principles of this nation.

Also: is this someone's new account or are you new? i like to know who I am talking to.

I would argue that the nation was founded when it won independence from GB, it is merely the government which was drafted under such principles. No semantics here.

If your case is true, and this is a nation founded on a set of principles, we have betrayed them long ago, and are collectively, unamerican.

In the case of Saudi Arabia: They still maintain a Royal Family, thus the people have a moral and civil obligation to trust in their rule; likewise, the Royal Family has a moral and civil obligation to rule in the best interests of Saudi Arabi without caving in to populist demands. If this requires the strict adherence to the principles of Islam, then so be it.

[TheSilentAssassin]

Originally Posted by Maximum Liberty

I would argue that the nation was founded when it won independence from GB, it is merely the government which was drafted under such principles. No semantics here.

Agreed, but in doing so, we functioned on the principles 1) that people have the right to choose how they want to be governed and 2) if people are not being governed that way, it is their duty to displace the old and create a new.

If not, our independence is immoral and we should give control back to GB.

Originally Posted by Maximum Liberty

If your case is true, and this is a nation founded on a set of principles, we have betrayed them long ago, and are collectively, unamerican.

yes, our foreign policy in Iran, Libya, Egypt etc shows that we no longer believe the principles that were necessary for our independence.

--

Also, you didn't answer my question. New account or new person?

[Maximum Liberty]

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

Agreed, but in doing so, we functioned on the principles 1) that people have the right to choose how they want to be governed and 2) if people are not being governed that way, it is their duty to displace the old and create a new.

If not, our independence is immoral and we should give control back to GB.

If people wish for a direct democracy contra aristocratic republic, and see that it is brought to fruition, what then do we make out of the founding principles? Furthermore, if enough took my previous "unamerican" statement to the same ends, could it truthfully be said to be unamerican?

It seems to me that there is a paradox. On one hand, we have the constitution, which forms the basis of all public American life. On the other hand, points 1 & 2(from your post) state that we may, effectively, wipe our ***** with the constitution if such a desire or necessity arises. In fact, they nullify any political notion of what being an American is.

I would say that our independence is not immoral, we earned it. We are far from being English in any sense of the term. Though, similarities exists, yet American culture has developed enough of a distinction where reintegration is impossible & illogical. I can think of no worse fate than being subjected to the circus that is british parliament.

Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin

yes, our foreign policy in Iran, Libya, Egypt etc shows that we no longer believe the principles that were necessary for our independence.

--

Also, you didn't answer my question. New account or new person?

It goes well beyond our foriegn policy. Our electoral process is a fairly large discrepancy.


You're in good company.

[Eric the Fish]

Originally Posted by ElJefe13

First off, this turned into a theological debate very quickly.

Second, until you can prove that liberty is more tangible than God, you have no argument.

Go to Russia . Publicly and loudly denigrate Putin. You'll have tangible proof rather quickly if you have the liberty to say what you want. Curse god etc etc and nothing will happen. Unless you are in Pakistan and reference Allah or Mohammad in which case you will end up in jail or dead.

[Maximum Liberty]

Originally Posted by Eric the Fish

Go to Russia . Publicly and loudly denigrate Putin. You'll have tangible proof rather quickly if you have the liberty to say what you want. Curse god etc etc and nothing will happen. Unless you are in Pakistan and reference Allah or Mohammad in which case you will end up in jail or dead.

That is not entirely true. A group of Russian female punk rockers are in prison for blasphemy and desecration, if I am not mistaken.

[Eric the Fish]

Originally Posted by Maximum Liberty

That is not entirely true. A group of Russian female punk rockers are in prison for blasphemy and desecration, if I am not mistaken.

That was my point. It shows a lack of liberty in Russia. Then I said you could curse god all you want and nothing will happen. The reference to Pakistan was a jab at the hudood laws there.

[TheSilentAssassin]

Originally Posted by Maximum Liberty

It seems to me that there is a paradox. On one hand, we have the constitution, which forms the basis of all public American life. On the other hand, points 1 & 2(from your post) state that we may, effectively, wipe our ***** with the constitution if such a desire or necessity arises. In fact, they nullify any political notion of what being an American is.

I don't see that as paradoxical at all.

Originally Posted by Maximum Liberty

It goes well beyond our foriegn policy. Our electoral process is a fairly large discrepancy.

I was just using one example. I agree there are plenty.

[SupraSuper]

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...ood-claim?lite

About ****ing time....almost there. Can't wait until war crime charges get levied against Israeli leaders.

[Fuzzy R. McNuggs]

Originally Posted by SupraSuper

Can't wait until war crime charges get levied against Israeli leaders.

[barrel roll]

I can't wait for the war crime trials against Hamas leaders.

[Volucris]

Can't wait for Islam to be eradicated.

[Pump Revolution]

Originally Posted by Volucris

Can't wait for Islam to be eradicated.

^this

[ElJefe13]

Originally Posted by Pump Revolution

^this

*sighs* facepalm

[Pump Revolution]

There is no need to be upset.

[Volucris]

IDK why people hate on Israel for these events. They do this ****:





Meanwhile Hamas and their followers launch rocket attacks which warrant the use of expensive missile defense systems to save human lives.



Please, stop wasting your breath trying to tell me Israel was being criminal through defending themselves. Supra is just another Islamic drone trying to spin positive PR for known terrorists.

[Treghc]

Originally Posted by Pump Revolution

There is no need to be upset.

The hypocrisy of wanting people to die for wanting other people to die.

[SupraSuper]