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Old 11-15-2012, 06:05 PM #106
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Go live somewhere else and not live in a free country and more than likely pay even more in taxes and have a ****tier job because you will be bumped out by more skilled applicants. Sure you're a little over taxes (BTW where you live it might not be that bad) **** has to be paid for. Here in KY we'd prolly be taxes closer to 490 but guess what? Our roads are **** in 90% of the city unless you live in a subdivision, half the police are useless the schools and everything are awful. When I was in middle school I went to one of the better ones in metro louisville, and the bathrooms were trash, broken tile, sinks that barely worked, ****ty food, everything in our city is trash, I didn't ever realize it until I went to aces like Nashville where every thing is cleaned up, the roads are taken care of, everything is so much nicer their. It's like anything else, you get what you pay for. If you pay more in taxes it should (and generally is) going to keep the place you live in functioning well. People whine too much about taxes, I honestly thing if you make close to 100K+ your tax rate should be considerably higher than someone who makes 25K or less. **** makes sense, you have the money to contribute they don't. Quit *****ing about living in a good country and maybe just maybe those taxes you pay will go to something worthwhile
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:12 PM #107
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Originally Posted by 98Pro View Post
Go live somewhere else and not live in a free country and more than likely pay even more in taxes and have a ****tier job because you will be bumped out by more skilled applicants. Sure you're a little over taxes (BTW where you live it might not be that bad) **** has to be paid for. Here in KY we'd prolly be taxes closer to 490 but guess what? Our roads are **** in 90% of the city unless you live in a subdivision, half the police are useless the schools and everything are awful. When I was in middle school I went to one of the better ones in metro louisville, and the bathrooms were trash, broken tile, sinks that barely worked, ****ty food, everything in our city is trash, I didn't ever realize it until I went to aces like Nashville where every thing is cleaned up, the roads are taken care of, everything is so much nicer their. It's like anything else, you get what you pay for. If you pay more in taxes it should (and generally is) going to keep the place you live in functioning well. People whine too much about taxes, I honestly thing if you make close to 100K+ your tax rate should be considerably higher than someone who makes 25K or less. **** makes sense, you have the money to contribute they don't. Quit *****ing about living in a good country and maybe just maybe those taxes you pay will go to something worthwhile
I can attest to this.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:24 PM #108
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Go live somewhere else and not live in a free country and more than likely pay even more in taxes and have a ****tier job because you will be bumped out by more skilled applicants. Sure you're a little over taxes (BTW where you live it might not be that bad) **** has to be paid for. Here in KY we'd prolly be taxes closer to 490 but guess what? Our roads are **** in 90% of the city unless you live in a subdivision, half the police are useless the schools and everything are awful. When I was in middle school I went to one of the better ones in metro louisville, and the bathrooms were trash, broken tile, sinks that barely worked, ****ty food, everything in our city is trash, I didn't ever realize it until I went to aces like Nashville where every thing is cleaned up, the roads are taken care of, everything is so much nicer their.
First, all the issues you cited are local issues, not federal issues. Raising the federal tax rate will not necessarily fix any of those issues. Second, do you think that perhaps the higher income in Nashville has more to do with how well their stuff is maintained rather than the tax rate?

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I honestly thing if you make close to 100K+ your tax rate should be considerably higher than someone who makes 25K or less. **** makes sense, you have the money to contribute they don't.
We already have a progressive tax code, you know.

I will throw this out again. Matt is the only one who has answered this so far. What SHOULD the tax brackets and rates be?

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Old 11-15-2012, 06:25 PM #109
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Go live somewhere else and not live in a free country and more than likely pay even more in taxes and have a ****tier job because you will be bumped out by more skilled applicants. Sure you're a little over taxes (BTW where you live it might not be that bad) **** has to be paid for. Here in KY we'd prolly be taxes closer to 490 but guess what? Our roads are **** in 90% of the city unless you live in a subdivision, half the police are useless the schools and everything are awful. When I was in middle school I went to one of the better ones in metro louisville, and the bathrooms were trash, broken tile, sinks that barely worked, ****ty food, everything in our city is trash, I didn't ever realize it until I went to aces like Nashville where every thing is cleaned up, the roads are taken care of, everything is so much nicer their. It's like anything else, you get what you pay for. If you pay more in taxes it should (and generally is) going to keep the place you live in functioning well. People whine too much about taxes, I honestly thing if you make close to 100K+ your tax rate should be considerably higher than someone who makes 25K or less. **** makes sense, you have the money to contribute they don't. Quit *****ing about living in a good country and maybe just maybe those taxes you pay will go to something worthwhile
That whole everyone being treated equally under the law stuff only applies when we want it to. You should pay more than your neighbour... because, well... how does that stupid saying go about ability and need?
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:13 PM #110
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25k or less should be no higher than 25% total. 25-40K would be no higher than 27.5%. 40-75k no higher than 29% total, 75-100 no higher than 31.5 % 100-150 no higher than 34% above that should be 37.5%. If you make that much ****ing money you should have no problem paying more especially if you're one of these people making 50k a day... Like bill o reily... To put in perspective if I made $5 million a year or some ****, if the government taxes me 50% because I did make so much I wouldn't complain. Why? Because even if I earned that cash it doesn't mean I don't owe my dues to having a country that makes it all possible
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:21 PM #111
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That whole everyone being treated equally under the law stuff only applies when we want it to. You should pay more than your neighbour... because, well... how does that stupid saying go about ability and need?
I only currently make about 16k a year (Full time student). Let's just say everyone is taxed the same 20% rate, and everyone must pay income taxes. I lose $3,200. Say you make 80k annually, meaning that you lose 16k. I am left with $12,800 to live off of for the year. You are left with 64k to live off of for the year.

Considering gas for my car each week, insurances, utilities, rent, cell phone bill (A necessity in today's age), auto repairs/maintenance, food/water, clothes/shoes, books/tuition for students (Even with loans, today there is no guarantee of a high paying job once graduated and required to pay off the debt), tickets/citations/fees which inevitably occur, healthcare procedures/needs, and a thousand+ other things that unexpectedly come up, living anywhere is not cheap or always easy to budget for.

Now, which of us do you think is going to struggle to cover basic costs of living more? Who is in more need of tax relief, in order to keep spending to fuel the economy? Me, or you?

Not everyone can be a doctor or lawyer. Lower and middle of the road paying jobs are essential to modern America. And I don't know anyone who would decide against getting a high paying job such as those mentioned above, just because they will lose a larger share of their earnings to taxes, en route to still making a **** ton more money than most other occupations.

This is pretty much just as true all the way up the fiscal latter. Someone making over a million a year is in far less need of tax relief than someone making 80k a year. Especially considering how easy it is to make money once you already have a lot.

In a perfect world, we wouldn't need to tax anybody more than anybody else. But unfortunately, that wouldn't leave us with anywhere near enough money to run our country. So some people are asked to pay more. Who gets asked first? Those who can afford it.

So a flat equal percentage across the board is not fair. Percentage factoring in average cost of living proportionate to income would be much more fair, imo.
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:29 PM #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spracks21

I only currently make about 16k a year (Full time student). Let's just say everyone is taxed the same 20% rate, and everyone must pay income taxes. I lose $3,200. Say you make 80k annually, meaning that you lose 16k. I am left with $12,800 to live off of for the year. You are left with 64k to live off of for the year.

Considering gas for my car each week, insurances, utilities, rent, cell phone bill (A necessity in today's age), auto repairs/maintenance, food/water, clothes/shoes, books/tuition for students (Even with loans, today there is no guarantee of a high paying job once graduated and required to pay off the debt), tickets/citations/fees which inevitably occur, healthcare procedures/needs, and a thousand+ other things that unexpectedly come up, living anywhere is not cheap or always easy to budget for.

Now, which of us do you think is going to struggle to cover basic costs of living more? Who is in more need of tax relief, in order to keep spending to fuel the economy? Me, or you?

Not everyone can be a doctor or lawyer. Lower and middle of the road paying jobs are essential to modern America. And I don't know anyone who would decide against getting a high paying job such as those mentioned above, just because they will lose a larger share of their earnings to taxes, en route to still making a **** ton more money than most other occupations.

This is pretty much just as true all the way up the fiscal latter. Someone making over a million a year is in far less need of tax relief than someone making 80k a year. Especially considering how easy it is to make money once you already have a lot.

In a perfect world, we wouldn't need to tax anybody more than anybody else. But unfortunately, that wouldn't leave us with anywhere near enough money to run our country. So some people are asked to pay more. Who gets asked first? Those who can afford it.

So a flat equal percentage across the board is not fair. Percentage factoring in average cost of living proportionate to income would be much more fair, imo.
This a good way to put it with specific factual information.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:28 PM #113
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Fair? I don't give a shot about fair, I give a shot about equal. And not in some radical egalitarian sense either.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:49 PM #114
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Hasn't the fair tax been shown in studies that it would work better than the piece of garbage system we've been using for decades? It would mean the largest power transfer from the federal government to the people that we've ever seen in modern times though, so we can't have that.
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:55 PM #115
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Hasn't the fair tax been shown in studies that it would work better than the piece of garbage system we've been using for decades?
Links please.

Also, good =/= effective. Slavery says hello.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:14 PM #116
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http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServ...about_research

Click an industry, then click a heading. $22,000,000 was spent in researching this tax plan.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:34 PM #117
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Fair? I don't give a shot about fair, I give a shot about equal. And not in some radical egalitarian sense either.
In what sense do you mean it then? By fair, I meant providing people with an equal opportunity to pursue the lives and occupational endeavors each person chooses. A flat tax rate leads to income inequality. That's "Not equal" as you said you are against. It favors the already wealthy, and burdens most severely the less fortunate. A progressive tax rate ensures everyone pays their fair share (To quote the Obama rhetoric). We need revenue, in addition to responsible spending cuts, so some people are going to need to pay more so that our government can function. And again, who gets asked first? Those who are more easily able to.

When you say you want equal, do you mean to say everyone should pay the exact same dollar amount? That'd likely be more of the interpretation of "equal" that you speak of, I'm guessing. And if so, I'll say that I don't view that as equal, and for much the same reason as I don't view having the same percentage across the board as "equal." Would you like to make the argument for a flat dollar amount tax?
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:07 PM #118
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I can update the tax code (individual tax code at least) so it will fit on one piece of paper.

Income (every kind)
-Standard of living baseline (based on family size, filing status and disabilities)
-up to %25 of your salary as a deduction for charitable contributions
-Interest on student loans, tuition and mortgage interest (only 1 house)
=Taxable Income
X Flat Rate
=Tax liability
-Taxes you paid
=Aditional taxes to pay (or tax refund if negative)

People would get their taxes done in 5 minutes. I am not saying it is perfect but I would support it or a version similar to it.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:09 PM #119
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Go live somewhere else and not live in a free country and more than likely pay even more in taxes and have a ****tier job because you will be bumped out by more skilled applicants. Sure you're a little over taxes (BTW where you live it might not be that bad) **** has to be paid for. Here in KY we'd prolly be taxes closer to 490 but guess what? Our roads are **** in 90% of the city unless you live in a subdivision, half the police are useless the schools and everything are awful. When I was in middle school I went to one of the better ones in metro louisville, and the bathrooms were trash, broken tile, sinks that barely worked, ****ty food, everything in our city is trash, I didn't ever realize it until I went to aces like Nashville where every thing is cleaned up, the roads are taken care of, everything is so much nicer their. It's like anything else, you get what you pay for. If you pay more in taxes it should (and generally is) going to keep the place you live in functioning well. People whine too much about taxes, I honestly thing if you make close to 100K+ your tax rate should be considerably higher than someone who makes 25K or less. **** makes sense, you have the money to contribute they don't. Quit *****ing about living in a good country and maybe just maybe those taxes you pay will go to something worthwhile

First of all, don't tell me to move to some other ****tier country. How about you suck on my dick instead? Sounds good to me. You brought up your ****ty public school and road system, which surprises me very little being that it's in KY. In my state, the property owners cover the cost of our public schools and they actually rank on the higher end of the stick as far as those go (property tax covers our schools, not income tax), although it's absolute bull**** for someone with no children in public school to be expected to foot the bill for kids they don't know (the way of the world, right? **** you socialist ******s). 98pro, how in the **** could your roads possibly be that bad? Come check out the ****bag roads I drive on here and get back to me. (pro tip: salt ****s up roads and vehicles, but I'm glad the government knows best)


edit - I'll only be paying close to $700 this week, I should really start doing my part for those fantastic federal government ammenities that I enjoy everyday

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Old 11-15-2012, 11:16 PM #120
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First of all, don't tell me to move to some other <del>****</del>tier country. How about you suck on my dick instead? Sounds good to me. You brought up your <del>****</del>ty public school and road system, which surprises me very little being that it's in KY. In my state, the property owners cover the cost of our public schools and they actually rank on the higher end of the stick as far as those go (property tax covers our schools, not income tax), although it's absolute bull<del>****</del> for someone with no children in public school to be expected to foot the bill for kids they don't know (the way of the world, right? <del>****</del> you socialist <del>******</del>s). 98pro, how in the <del>****</del> could your roads possibly be that bad? Come check out the <del>****</del>bag roads I drive on here and get back to me. (pro tip: salt <del>****</del>s up roads and vehicles, but I'm glad the government knows best)
Strictly related to the school part, no matter where the money comes from it would be "unfair" because there would also be people without kids in that group. Unless you just charged people to go to school, which is tuition, which is not a public education.

However, whether to have public education or not is a whole other issue.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:20 PM #121
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How does anyone justify this? Just because you own property you are obligated to pay for kids you don't know to attend school?
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:26 PM #122
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How does anyone justify this? Just because you own property you are obligated to pay for kids you don't know to attend school?
Because you can argue that it is in the public's best interest to educate the people in your community. Kids learn, kids earn more money, and stay off streets and there is also other public events they put on such as plays, sporting events and charity work. I would say the biggest argument is just that it is in our best interest to help educate other people.
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:17 AM #123
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How does anyone justify this? Just because you own property you are obligated to pay for kids you don't know to attend school?
Haha you've been to the middle east and you need someone to explain to you the benefit of making sure everyone gets a basic education?

Seriously, people told you to move to a ****ty country because that's the system you're advocating, alternatively stay in the US and make angry posts on the internet.

Also I find it amusing you've born witness firsthand to the amount of money the military just burns through like its nothing and you think your taxes are high because of black people and public schools.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:28 AM #124
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In what sense do you mean it then? By fair, I meant providing people with an equal opportunity to pursue the lives and occupational endeavors each person chooses. A flat tax rate leads to income inequality. That's "Not equal" as you said you are against. It favors the already wealthy, and burdens most severely the less fortunate. A progressive tax rate ensures everyone pays their fair share (To quote the Obama rhetoric). We need revenue, in addition to responsible spending cuts, so some people are going to need to pay more so that our government can function. And again, who gets asked first? Those who are more easily able to.

When you say you want equal, do you mean to say everyone should pay the exact same dollar amount? That'd likely be more of the interpretation of "equal" that you speak of, I'm guessing. And if so, I'll say that I don't view that as equal, and for much the same reason as I don't view having the same percentage across the board as "equal." Would you like to make the argument for a flat dollar amount tax?
Progressive tax rates are not fair. If I make more, you (government) take more. If I want more, I have to make a significant amount more. If I am unlucky enough to be at the top of tax rate A, then get that few hundred dollars more next year and progress to the bottom of rate B, I will essentially make less money than I was when in the lower tax bracket. That isn't "fair".

If you want to take 50% of person X's wages (that has been taxes how many times by the time the wage earner gets it?) then you should take 50% of person Y's wages as well. That is the only time you realize it is wrong, but for some reason you think it is ok to plunder more from the guy in the bigger house.


A flat dollar amount wouldn't work for the same reasons. The only fair way to do it would be a standard percentage across the board, with deductions. Or even better - get rid of income tax and institute single digit percentage sales taxes with credits at the end of the year.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:30 AM #125
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Haha you've been to the middle east and you need someone to explain to you the benefit of making sure everyone gets a basic education?

Seriously, people told you to move to a ****ty country because that's the system you're advocating, alternatively stay in the US and make angry posts on the internet.

Also I find it amusing you've born witness firsthand to the amount of money the military just burns through like its nothing and you think your taxes are high because of black people and public schools.
Those that want to be educated seek it out. Forcing children through John Dewey's machine is not the social benefit you think it is.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:06 AM #126
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When you say you want equal, do you mean to say everyone should pay the exact same dollar amount? That'd likely be more of the interpretation of "equal" that you speak of, I'm guessing.
Be honest about what you are advocating. Someone paying a flat x% on $80k a year is paying more than someone paying the same flat % on $22K per year. You are advocating that those making more pay proportionately more of their income.

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an equal opportunity to pursue the lives and occupational endeavors each person chooses.
Not all occupations have the same value to society. Why should someone who chooses to pursue an occupation that is not of high value be given preferential treatment over those who choose more valuable occupations?

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Originally Posted by spracks21 View Post
A progressive tax rate ensures everyone pays their fair share (To quote the Obama rhetoric).
What is everyone's fair share?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 98Pro View Post
25k or less should be no higher than 25% total. 25-40K would be no higher than 27.5%. 40-75k no higher than 29% total, 75-100 no higher than 31.5 % 100-150 no higher than 34% above that should be 37.5%.
You should contrast your proposal with the current tax brackets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 98Pro View Post
To put in perspective if I made $5 million a year or some ****, if the government taxes me 50% because I did make so much I wouldn't complain. Why? Because even if I earned that cash it doesn't mean I don't owe my dues to having a country that makes it all possible
One person making $5mil a year consumes less in government services than 50 people making $100K a year. Heck, that millionaire may consume less in government services than ONE of those making $100,000.00 because the millionaire is likely to be more self-sufficient. Can you explain why the government should receive less of the $5mil in taxes from the 50 than from the same $5mil received by the one person? You can make an argument for equalizing income; the tax code does have a social engineering aspect to it. However, that doesn't explain the "fair share" idea in terms of consuming government services.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 98Pro View Post
if the government taxes me 50% because I did make so much I wouldn't complain. Why? Because even if I earned that cash it doesn't mean I don't owe my dues to having a country that makes it all possible
When you make your first $5mil, the government will not prevent you from paying 50% in taxes. Bet you don't do that. 'Murika.

custar
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Last edited by custar : 11-16-2012 at 07:19 AM.
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