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Old 12-30-2012, 08:29 PM #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spracks21 View Post
Number of days the increased revenue from slightly increasing the wealthy's income tax rates seems to be a poor way of framing it. That's still almost a 3% increase of all government spending in revenue that we didn't have before. We could do a lot with that money, I think. Especially in tandem with the amount in cuts in spending that Obama has already agreed to.

I do agree with your last statement though. We shouldn't argue like little girls while most of the country pays the price. Obama agrees too. That's why he moved up from 250k to 400k in his plan, and has agreed to GOP demands such as cuts/changes to SS and Medicare. He ran, and was elected on, raising taxes on people $250k and over, but GOP stubbornly insisted these people could not afford it. $400k annually is enough to call someone well-to-do, if not rich, I think. They can afford the small increase in taxes for whatever they make on top of $400k. Especially considering the fact that if they don't agree, then EVERYBODY'S taxes go up.

I don't see any way for this to be Obama's fault, unless you expect him to abandon what he ran on, and concede to absolutely everything the GOP wants. The fact remains that Obama has offered to keep taxes low for all Americans making less than $400k annually. But Republicans refuse to let these people get their tax cuts, unless Obama also agrees to give those cuts to millionaires too.

If only we could have settled this in November when there was still time to do what the people wanted..
If I recall, Republicans dont want to give tax cuts to the rich, but keep them at current levels instead of raising them.

Also, the original Republican proposition was eliminating 3 billion in spending where Democrats wanted to raise 1.8 billion in tax revenues. My numbers may be slightly off as this was some time ago, but point being the Democrats did not agree at all to this proposition.... why? Because it did not invove raising rich taxes which would cover government spending for 8 days.

I don't understand how you can argue this isn't a spending problem, but we must raise taxes on one group of people.

Do not get me wrong, I have always been one to say the "Do you really need 600k/year? Couldn't you live on 250k/year?" argument. I just don't see how we could thing taxing/keeping taxes at current levels for one small group of people(the ones contributing the most to taxes already as it is) as one of the biggest issues.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:38 PM #317
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**** it, lets propose a 75% tax on those that make over 1.5 mil.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:56 PM #318
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**** it, lets propose a 75% tax on those that make over 1.5 mil.
Wrong side of the pond, 'ol chap
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:53 PM #319
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But Gonzo wants to be more like the European countries.
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:45 AM #320
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In the House, 174 Republicans and 95 Democrats*voted for the law, while 66 Republicans and 95 Democrats opposed it. (Final tally: Passed 269-161.) In the Senate, 28 Republicans and 45 Democrats*voted for it, while 19 Republicans and 6 Democrats opposed it.*And of course, the president signed it into law.
That was mighty inconsiderate of you to throw out something that on the left circle jerk.

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I wish I could see things like you guys do.
No you don't. You don't want that much blind hate in your life.


http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...145413745.html

Obamacare will initiate a 3.8% surtax on "investment income" when your adjusted gross income is more than $200,000 ($250,000 for joint-filers). What is "investment income?" Dividends, interest, rent, capital gains, annuities, house sales, partnerships, etc. Taxes on dividends will rise from 15% to 18.8%--if Congress extends the Bush tax cuts. If Congress does not extend the Bush tax cuts, taxes on dividends will rise from 15% to a shocking 43.8%.

So if the Bush tax cuts are not extended, those making over $200k ($250k for joint-filers) will go up nearly 8% for investment income including capital gains and dividends?

Also:

The change raises the Medicare tax by 0.9% (from 1.45% to 2.35%) on wages and self-employment income above $250,000 ($200,000, single). Unlike Social Security taxes, the Medicare tax is uncapped. The new levy has no deductible component for self-employed taxpayers.


I have a question for everyone on this forum. How much are you willing to have your taxes go up if it means an increase of double that for those in the $200K/$250K range?

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Old 12-31-2012, 05:49 AM #321
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Off the wall, but how many of you would even notice the Bush tax cuts expiring?
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:00 AM #322
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Off the wall, but how many of you would even notice the Bush tax cuts expiring?
I would bet that surprisingly many do not know. This is to help them:

http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/how...ush-tax-58195/

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Old 12-31-2012, 06:19 AM #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by custar View Post
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...145413745.html

Obamacare will initiate a 3.8% surtax on "investment income" when your adjusted gross income is more than $200,000 ($250,000 for joint-filers). What is "investment income?" Dividends, interest, rent, capital gains, annuities, house sales, partnerships, etc. Taxes on dividends will rise from 15% to 18.8%--if Congress extends the Bush tax cuts. If Congress does not extend the Bush tax cuts, taxes on dividends will rise from 15% to a shocking 43.8%.

So if the Bush tax cuts are not extended, those making over $200k ($250k for joint-filers) will go up nearly 8% for investment income including capital gains and dividends?

Also:

The change raises the Medicare tax by 0.9% (from 1.45% to 2.35%) on wages and self-employment income above $250,000 ($200,000, single). Unlike Social Security taxes, the Medicare tax is uncapped. The new levy has no deductible component for self-employed taxpayers.

I have a question for everyone on this forum. How much are you willing to have your taxes go up if it means an increase of double that for those in the $200K/$250K range?
Not super sure of the point you are trying to make here, but this is actually one of the reasons many of us on the left prefer traveling over the fiscal cliff (which really isn't a cliff) to cutting social insurance benefits.

For one thing going "over the cliff" shows the GOP to be the problem that they are. They have pretty much everything to lose in the "cliff" yet they STILL can't even bring themselves to address it. Then, it will be dead simple after the cuts sunset to pass a new round of cuts but focus them only on the middle and lower classes.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:41 AM #324
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Off the wall, but how many of you would even notice the Bush tax cuts expiring?
*raises hand*


Here is my take on this cliff deal - it is pure politic gaming at it worst. You have both sides wanting to go over the cliff so they can look like the good guys afterwards. If you look at the Dems, they are doing nothing to meet the Republicans. NOTHING. Why do I say nothing? Compare the actions taken for this budget 3 years 11 months in the making to the actions taken for Obama-Care. The Republicans are not blameless in this, either. They didn't play their cards right, and will pay for it. No matter what happens, they will be the bad guys (deserved or not, that is how the Dems play the game).

TLR - both parties are wanting to go over the cliff to be the good guy/saviors afterwards
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:53 AM #325
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Both sides have been changing their offers to a common focal point. Don't be disingenuous. The dollar amounts are almost identical after months of negotiation. The differences are in the details. "Doing nothing" is definitely incorrect. The Democrats specifically have, on multiple occasions, lowered their expectations on revenue increases and raised spending cuts to draw Republicans in.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:55 AM #326
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*raises hand*


Here is my take on this cliff deal - it is pure politic gaming at it worst. You have both sides wanting to go over the cliff so they can look like the good guys afterwards. If you look at the Dems, they are doing nothing to meet the Republicans. NOTHING. Why do I say nothing? Compare the actions taken for this budget 3 years 11 months in the making to the actions taken for Obama-Care. The Republicans are not blameless in this, either. They didn't play their cards right, and will pay for it. No matter what happens, they will be the bad guys (deserved or not, that is how the Dems play the game).

TLR - both parties are wanting to go over the cliff to be the good guy/saviors afterwards
You make over $200/250k in north Florida training people? ****ing where do I sign up?

The last time we had this conversation it was the GOP who wouldn't agree to concessions. You're surprised they're ducked this time around?
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:55 AM #327
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If it is possible to do negative something (eg -4 something), they would have succeeded compared to their efforts for Obama-Care.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:58 AM #328
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You make over $200/250k in north Florida training people? ****ing where do I sign up?
I don't train people, I make curriculum for certain specialties in the military. I haven't trained people since I wore a uniform.

Have 8+ years experience with submarines and nuclear weapons? An associates degree? Some form of education experience? Send me your resume.


I'm disappointed. I think both parties need to do controlled burns.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:00 AM #329
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I don't train people, I make curriculum for certain specialties in the military. I haven't trained people since I wore a uniform.

Have 8+ years experience with submarines and nuclear weapons? An associates degree? Some form of education experience? Send me your resume.
You seriously expect me to believe you make $200k+? If it were that easy I'd just roll into the naval nuke program they spam me with emails about.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:06 AM #330
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Let's not forget it's $200k+ taxable we're talking about here, so that's substantially more than $200k salary.

That said, the Bush tax cuts actually were across all brackets and included other bracketless cuts, so almost everyone will have some effect.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:09 AM #331
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They're not going to raise the lower brackets and that's still hard to believe.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:09 AM #332
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They're not going to raise the lower brackets and that's still hard to believe.
Who's not going to raise the lower brackets? The Bush Tax Cuts expiring will include the lower brackets.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:16 AM #333
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Even if they expire it won't stay for long. Congress can't afford the drop in popularity.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:19 AM #334
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You seriously expect me to believe you make $200k+? If it were that easy I'd just roll into the naval nuke program they spam me with emails about.
Didn't say I made 200k+, but the wife and I (dual income household) eat high on the hog.

PS - Only way you'll make 200k a year as a nuke is if you are E6 and above, getting BAH w/ dependents, have the top reenlistment bonus, and your spouse works as well. When you get out, you are looking at 80k starting wage at a plant... if you are lucky.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:19 AM #335
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Even if they expire it won't stay for long. Congress can't afford the drop in popularity.
Yes, and I'm all for extending for the middle and lower classes, but that wasn't the question.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:23 AM #336
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Didn't say I made 200k+, but the wife and I (dual income household) eat high on the hog.

PS - Only way you'll make 200k a year as a nuke is if you are E6 and above, getting BAH w/ dependents, have the top reenlistment bonus, and your spouse works as well. When you get out, you are looking at 80k starting wage at a plant... if you are lucky.
High on a hog for your region is $60k yearly.

Why do you think I'm not going to nuke school?
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