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Old 11-14-2012, 11:01 AM #22
TheSilentAssassin
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Originally Posted by yesme View Post
1. what positive gains from the stimulus? Jobs? Higher wages? Most economists except shrill Keynesian ones will admit that stimulus has created very little if any REAL gdp growth.
Bull****. IGM forum is the closest thing we have towards and unbiased expert panel and they all support it.
http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-econom...w5O9LNJL1oz4Xi

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2.4% of growth in 10 and 1.8% in 11 and this is somehow psoitive growth to you? We had to borrow and spend a trillion plus dollars each year just to get THAT?
Yes 2.4 and 1.8 are > 0 so they are positive. That's how numbers work. And as I have said you are criticizing surgery by ignoring the health gains from it and only seeing the scars. You can't claim we are in a depression because we did a stimulus that made us not in a depression. That's just ignoring facts.

Also, I expected a self educated genius like yourself to understand that positive growth is growth above 0...
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:04 AM #23
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Originally Posted by yesme View Post

lets try again, if

IF

if the government was fudging numbers to make gdp look better, what other indicators could we look at and how are they doing?
First, give me any reason to assume that they are. I'm not wasting my time on some hypothetical bull**** rooted in nothing but partisan angst and misguided economics.

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Whatever i want to do, money is not the most valuble thing to me, family is. I work at places that allow me to spend more time with my family, rather then chasing a dream of more money because of higher inflation every year.

It's called self sustainability, you should check it out.
Nice dodge, bro...
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:05 AM #24
Tafari Makonnen
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Originally Posted by yesme View Post
Whatever i want to do, money is not the most valuble thing to me, family is. I work at places that allow me to spend more time with my family, rather then chasing a dream of more money because of higher inflation every year.

It's called self sustainability, you should check it out.
You don't do anything of any significance, and reconcile your lack of desirable/marketable skills by creating a your own little reality where the pursuits of people smarter and better than you are futile.

You are man of little worth trying to feel better about him self. Your rants reveal you to be a very sad individual.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:09 AM #25
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Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
Bull****. IGM forum is the closest thing we have towards and unbiased expert panel and they all support it.
http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-econom...w5O9LNJL1oz4Xi



Yes 2.4 and 1.8 are > 0 so they are positive. That's how numbers work. And as I have said you are criticizing surgery by ignoring the health gains from it and only seeing the scars. You can't claim we are in a depression because we did a stimulus that made us not in a depression. That's just ignoring facts.

Also, I expected a self educated genius like yourself to understand that positive growth is growth above 0...

SO you agree then?

without the stimulus(gov borrowing and spending) we would be in a depression? it seems your link agrees that unemployment would be much higher without gov borrowing and spending.


How long can the private sector make no gains, while the public sector borrows it's way to anemic 1.8% (total both public and private)growth and you think we are not heading for a depression?
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:12 AM #26
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SO you agree then?

without the stimulus(gov borrowing and spending) we would be in a depression? it seems your link agrees that unemployment would be much higher without gov borrowing and spending.
Without the stimulus we would be worse off. Bad =/= depression. Depression = depression. Stop confusing the two. It is impossible to say we would or wouldn't be in a despression without the stimulus, but I can say that with it we are not. So you saying that we are is nonsense.

Before we continue, I will need you to admit that we are not in a depression.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:13 AM #27
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You don't do anything of any significance

well my wife and two little girls would say different, but i like how you make an *** ump tion of yourself all the time, you go boy!

, and reconcile your lack of desirable/marketable skills by creating a your own little reality where the pursuits of people smarter and better than you are futile.

sure,sure, what i happen to do my friend, i do well. What i do for a living has no impact on what i debate online about, so there is no need to bring it up. I do realize you bring it up in hope to belittle me about how could i know anything if i do this for a living. While it is a cute tactic to get you out of offering any substance to the discussion, after years you think you guys might get the hint

You are man of little worth trying to feel better about him self.

i am more then likely one of the happiest men alive son, i just had my second little girl on sept. 14th, and what a doll she is. I look at my kids and see all the worth i will ever need loser, i how no need to look for "worth" from losers like you, friends or any other judgemental body. I feel good about myself everyday because i am moving away from a system that does not reward hard work and planning.


Your rants reveal you to be a very sad individual.

It's pathetic ain't it, i have everything i ever wanted and the time and knowledge on how to use those resources and time. I feel myself getting misted eyed now over the thought of taking today off and spending time with my girls when they get back. Enjoy your day as well loser
And your the guy who dismissed DaVinci's inventions because he was an artist.

Your a moron who needs someone with a degree because he is to stupid to realize information if correct is viable from any source.

Last edited by yesme : 11-14-2012 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:16 AM #28
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Without the stimulus we would be worse off. Bad =/= depression. Depression = depression. Stop confusing the two. It is impossible to say we would or wouldn't be in a despression without the stimulus, but I can say that with it we are not. So you saying that we are is nonsense.

Before we continue, I will need you to admit that we are not in a depression.
No we are not in a depression Today, AGAIN, without government borrowing and spending, are there ANY OTHER indicators that show positive growth on the horizon?

Manufacturing?
Sales?
public asst gone down or up?
companies set to hire thousands next month?

Or more qe3?
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:20 AM #29
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Originally Posted by TheSilentAssassin View Post
Bull****. IGM forum is the closest thing we have towards and unbiased expert panel and they all support it.
http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-econom...w5O9LNJL1oz4Xi



Yes 2.4 and 1.8 are > 0 so they are positive. That's how numbers work. And as I have said you are criticizing surgery by ignoring the health gains from it and only seeing the scars. You can't claim we are in a depression because we did a stimulus that made us not in a depression. That's just ignoring facts.

Also, I expected a self educated genius like yourself to understand that positive growth is growth above 0...
Gee thanks for telling me how numbers work.

Now can you tell me why and how to trust those numbers?

It must be because the government never lies, including when it is in it's best interest too.

Surely that must be why you hold this unshakable belief that these numbers are correct.

You know enron put out some numbers as well, so did mfglobal,greece,spain,italy,etc,etc.

But i get it, our government is full of christian people who would never lie.

Good call on the non bias approach there.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:26 AM #30
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Gee thanks for telling me how numbers work.

Now can you tell me why and how to trust those numbers?

It must be because the government never lies, including when it is in it's best interest too.
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First, give me any reason to assume that they are. I'm not wasting my time on some hypothetical bull**** rooted in nothing but partisan angst and misguided economics.
--
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No we are not in a depression Today
There we go. Was that so hard?
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And your the guy who dismissed DaVinci's inventions because he was an artist.
Did you just compare yourself to DaVinci? Lol
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:36 AM #31
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--

There we go. Was that so hard?
--


Did you just compare yourself to DaVinci? Lol

No i compared his theory that if people do not do it for a living, they must not know anything about the subject and therefore should not speak about it.

It's like him telling da vinci to be quite about planes because he is just a painter after all right?
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:38 AM #32
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--

There we go. Was that so hard?
--


Did you just compare yourself to DaVinci? Lol
so about hedonics, do we use them to adjust gdp or not?
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:44 AM #33
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Spherical cow says we should be receeding.
Only in vacuum.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:47 AM #34
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Only in vacuum.
Devoid of gravity.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:50 AM #35
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Devoid of gravity.
Really? I got constant gravity to work.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:51 AM #36
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so about hedonics, do we use them to adjust gdp or not?
We do. We have been. We should. Still not sure of the relevance (probably because you have yet to make an actual point about them). What exactly is your point?
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:53 AM #37
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Really? I got constant gravity to work.
I'm having trouble figuring out the sign of the vector.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:20 PM #38
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Tell you what yesme. Go post over at GLP as there are a lot of people there like you. They might even give you a cookie.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:48 PM #39
Tafari Makonnen
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And your the guy who dismissed DaVinci's inventions because he was an artist.

Your a moron who needs someone with a degree because he is to stupid to realize information if correct is viable from any source.
The problem with you is most of the information you post and the assertions you make in a field where I work for a living is flat out wrong. It has nothing to do with having a degree, it is your being wrong. You then dismiss the points being made by people more informed than yourself saying you lack a fundamental understanding of the concepts involved by asserting their education, expertise, and analysis are no more valuable than your reading and misinterpreting information on the internet. That belief is inaccurate.

You know nothing about a particular topic, and then parade around as if you are an expert with all the answers. If you are able to do this with something as concrete and well understood as physics, what credibility to you have when discussing something like economics? With minimal research I have been able to determine that your economic ramblings are as poorly supported as your 9/11 garbage. You take tremendously complex problems, assess them with preconceived ideas and very little knowledge of the topic, and form an opinion on what essentially amounts to total nonsense.

You fail to ***** problems correctly on the most fundamental level, and are to stupid to realize how little you really understand.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:00 PM #40
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We do. We have been. We should. Still not sure of the relevance (probably because you have yet to make an actual point about them). What exactly is your point?

So when they calculate how much i WOULD have paid in rent, and then add that to gdp, that is a ok with you?

What about when they add what i WOULD of paid if my checking account was not free?


Quote:
It is accomplished by the magic of “imputed value.” Imputed Value is not real goods or services. It is made up goods.

The most outrageous example is the imputed rental value of owner-occupied houses (OOH). This is the average market rent all homeowners who live in their homes would get “IF” they rented their homes. Only problem, of course, is they do NOT rent their homes. They live in them! And yet, somehow the government has decided to include this ficticious number as part of the GDP. It is impossible to comprehend how imputed rental value has anything to do with goods produced in the United States.

But wait. It gets worse. OOH value makes up more than 10% of our GDP. Yes, 10% of our GDP is imputed (made up) and not goods or services we actually produce. We have used OOH since the 1960′s, but back then it was only 5.9% of the GDP. Since then, it’s nearly doubled as we struggle to maintain the fiction of growth by using imputed value, while at the same time shipping more jobs and factories overseas.

Did you not say something about a 10% drop in gdp?
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:14 PM #41
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The problem with you is most of the information you post and the assertions you make in a field where I work for a living is flat out wrong.

sure it is, and all those engineers on the 911engineer sites are wrong as well, because hey they went to college, but just don't grasp the concepts as well as you do.

lets see, take your word or his

Quote:
Scott C. Grainger, BS CE, PE – Licensed Professional Civil Engineer and/or Fire Protection Engineer in the States of Arizona, California, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico, New York, Utah, Virginia, Washington, and Wyoming. Owner of Grainger Consulting, Inc., a fire protection engineering firm (23 years). Former Chairman, Arizona State Fire Code Committee. Former President of the Arizona Chapter of the Society of Fire Protection Engineers. Current Member of the Forensic Sciences Committee and the Fire Standards Committee of ASTM International (formerly American Society for Testing and Materials ). Senior Member, National Academy of Forensic Engineers.

Statement in support of Architects and Engineers petition:

"Approximately 50% of my work is forensic. I am licensed in 9 States. In addition to my forensic work, a good portion of my work is in the design of structural fireproofing systems.

All three [WTC] collapses were very uniform in nature. Natural collapses due to unplanned events are not uniform."
http://patriotsquestion911.com/engineers.html

man thats a hard choice, tell you what, throw up your resume, and we will see who would understand this stuff more, you or him ok?



It has nothing to do with having a degree, it is your being wrong.

and you never being wrong

You then dismiss the points being made by people more informed than yourself

really? i dismiss them? tell you what, why don't YOU make it a POINT to provide some kind of testing/evidence that the fires were as hot as they needed to be that day?

I think that will be point,set match for you there buddy


saying you lack a fundamental understanding of the concepts involved by asserting their education, expertise, and analysis are no more valuable than your reading and misinterpreting information on the internet. That belief is inaccurate.

first it is not a belief, and second it is only because of your belief that the truth evades you. You really can not be that dense can you? Every fricking economist damn near in the world did not see the credit collapse, just because you went to school and got a degree in ANY field does not make you master of knowledge in all, much less your own. You can not, unless you really are a moron, tell me that fires that tested at 250oC for 15 mins weakened any of those supports enough to cause collapse. So unless you have evidence those fires were hotter for longer then the metal TESTED AT, then please step up and show your stuff brother.

You know nothing about a particular topic, and then parade around as if you are an expert with all the answers.

i will be the first to admit i know next to nothing about anything, it's in that mindset that i don't fall prey to the i know everything mindset that dominates your line of thinking. I do however know where to find all the answers, and again, a expert is only a call or email away if i come across something to hard that i have to dish out 40k to get.

If you are able to do this with something as concrete and well understood as physics, what credibility to you have when discussing something like economics?

please sir, i won't even get into a debate on the physics side of the collapse of the towers with you, i mean why bother, nist's corrupt *** just investigated up to the moment of collapse, so why should i speculate on it any further, you already clearly have a belief on this subject.

With minimal research I have been able to determine that your economic ramblings are as poorly supported as your 9/11 garbage.

aka with your confirmation bias, krugman told you everything would be ok, just print more money and surely things will bounce back, and since rates are so low even

You take tremendously complex problems, assess them with preconceived ideas and very little knowledge of the topic, and form an opinion on what essentially amounts to total nonsense.

You fail to ***** problems correctly on the most fundamental level, and are to stupid to realize how little you really understand.



Stupidity, paid for and given employment, is stupidity none the less.

Last edited by yesme : 11-14-2012 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:15 PM #42
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Tell you what yesme. Go post over at GLP as there are a lot of people there like you. They might even give you a cookie.
Ah a fellow from the windy city, lol. Good luck friend!
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