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Old 11-12-2012, 11:14 AM #64
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Originally Posted by barrel roll View Post
I'll give you that most are taught the socialist religious nightmare is normal in the public education system. I'll give you that most have no grasp to absolutely horrible comprehension of what the founding documents say. I'll give you that people think the separation between church and state is listed in the constitution and think the supreme court is both infallible and all powerful.
What's your take on the first amendment? That congress shall make no law regarding an establishment of religion, but religion is free to use the government as a tool of evangelism and enforcement of religious norms?
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Last edited by Umami : 11-12-2012 at 11:40 AM. Reason: *an establishment of
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:23 AM #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrel roll View Post
I'll give you that people think the separation between church and state is listed in the constitution and think the supreme court is both infallible and all powerful.
The function of the Supreme Court has little to do with fallibility because interpretation very rarely presents a binary question of "right" or "wrong."
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:49 AM #66
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Originally Posted by Umami View Post
What's your take on the first amendment? That congress shall make no law regarding an establishment of religion, but religion is free to use the government as a tool of evangelism and enforcement of religious norms?
It is open to the states. Well, it was. I think the 14th does away with that.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:14 PM #67
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Originally Posted by licence2kill View Post
Said by no person of color ever


Hey look, Carl is interjecting race into the mix once again. What else is new, Carl loves to turn things into racist arguments, and then claim he's not race baiting or racist.

----------------------------

Regarding "such and such a state can't secede" - South Carolina says hi. What the written law says is irrelevant. Supreme Court can say whatever they want, but their words do not prevent actual action from being taken.

As far as the list goes - Vermont has tried to secede several times, and it hasn't gone anywhere. I thought they were the first state since the Civil War to try it again. Surprised Louisiana would consider it - it was the government that flew planes in and helped clean up the disaster of Katrina. Would of been worse if they were on their own with aid being "mandatory" so it sounds like a Obama relection reaction.

Texas is the state in the country with the greatest ability to self sustain if the states did branch off into 50 individual countries. Their leaving would be a big loss for the United States, for reasons given (ports, beef, textbooks, etc) but I think any action of them seceding is all fantasy.

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It would remove Texas' influence on the textbooks across America, reversing some disturbing trends in education
Which are slightly exaggerated. And the "Gerrymandering" excuse is a laugh. Democrats do nothing wrong, ever, John Edwards was a nice guy, and they're just misunderstood. Anything else?
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:19 PM #68
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What's your take on the first amendment? That congress shall make no law regarding an establishment of religion, but religion is free to use the government as a tool of evangelism and enforcement of religious norms?
Religion should not have any access to using the government for much of anything. Religion is slowly dying as the information age treks forward.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:24 PM #69
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
It is open to the states. Well, it was. I think the 14th does away with that.
The incorporationists. Ugh. **** up more things than they fix.

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What's your take on the first amendment? That congress shall make no law regarding an establishment of religion, but religion is free to use the government as a tool of evangelism and enforcement of religious norms?
Explain how we can have both.

I think the first amendment to the US constitution, which is mirrored in ALL state constitutions, modeled after Virginia's statute for religious freedom, couldn't be more right on. Keep in mind, a few states had official religions at the start of the American Union. Their citizens later included versions of Virginia's statute.

If you aren't showing preference of religion, you don't show preference of religion. No one is getting tried for adultery, but using adultery as a reason to dissolve a contract is fine.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:29 PM #70
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Originally Posted by StellarKnight View Post
The function of the Supreme Court has little to do with fallibility because interpretation very rarely presents a binary question of "right" or "wrong."
That doesn't negate what is taught and understood by the majority.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:08 PM #71
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The incorporationists. Ugh. **** up more things than they fix.
In my opinion, their work won't stand.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:59 PM #72
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You guys understand that Texas would more than likely have an extremely business friendly environment, with incredibly low corporate taxes right? People would be moving businesses there from all over to manufacture and base HQ's out of, much like they're doing now ( See: California and New England exodus).

I think the writing would be on the wall for years before anything happened though, we're far, far from that point.
Of course Texas would have a few major problems to overcome such as...

A current annual budget deficit running $15- 27 Billion dollars wich doesn't include Texas having to provided its own border patrol or INS to keep out the illegals or military to defend itself. Not to mention that AARP says that 1 out of every 8 Texans is on Social Security, if Texan leaves the Union it also leaves the federal SS trust fund so Texas will either have to go even further in to debt or cut of benifits for 3,000,000+ Texans (http://assets.aarp.org/rgcenter/econ/ss_facts_08_tx.pdf side note: out of thos 3,028,307 Texans on SS, 60% of them relie on SS for at least 50%). So Texas would have to drasticly raise taxes or really cut services. Both of which make it really hard to have business friendly policies.

The other problem while the new Texas "might" have good business policies its hard line against illegal aliens would mean that new construction would cost you an arm and a leg. Not to mention you would have a labor shortage across the board which would drive the salaries up for all workers and the operational expensess for any company in Texas.

If I could bet money on it I would bet that Texas would implode in on itself if it tried to go it alone. They could let their debt skyrocket, keeping taxes low to try and encourage new business growth but the high cost of labor and construction expense would still keep people away.

On the bright side; it would be a good wake up call for America after we watch Texas go in to ecomonic default. Unable to to barrow any more money, Texas would have adopt austerity programs like Greece has. The state goverment would have massive lay-offs, programs would be cut, and inflation would go crazy as the transportation infatructure collapses from lack of maintainance.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:13 PM #73
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I don't think you grasp things here. This new country of "Texas" would be a very atractive place for companies to stay, the amount of laws and controls from the federal level gone, union protection laws gone, etc.
And huge tariffs would be placed, because Texas is not a NAFTA member and we definitely don't want a third world country on our border depressing our prices and wages (as NAFTA taught us, lol).

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I think the impact of texas no longer buying "US" made textbooks would in fact crash the textbook industry.
Nonsensical silliness.

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Other impacts, such as beef production, Texas is #1 by a huge amount in that industry, so much so I could see the cost for a simple pound of beef going up 200-300% in the "U.S." Next we look to cotton, you know that important fiber that makes up a majority of the clothing you are wearing right now. Guess what state is #1 cotton production...(they also leed in sheep, goat and a few other products)
Hey I didn't think about the health benefits ... that should really help our healthcare system as well! Great!

Texas represents 6% of world cotton production. Somehow I think we can manage.

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Now lets look at exporting products, Texas is in fact #1 in the U.S. at $249.8 billion(2011 stats) a year. Can you emagin what it would do to the U.S. economy were that kind of flow to be removed? They hold the 6th largest port in the world, the #1 air cargo airport in the U.S., so the impact there is huge.
Again, huge stimulative public works projects to expand ports and airports at the remaining states. America's economy would positively boom, while Texas' would shrivel, losing all that commerce.

The net impact of Texas on the federal ledger is near neutral, so we'll be fine.

Boy this is looking better and better!
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Last edited by drgonzo : 11-12-2012 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:36 PM #74
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who cares cotton is grown mostly in texas. legalize hemp growing and everyone wont need ****ty cotton. anything cotton can do, hemp can do it better
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:40 PM #75
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who cares cotton is grown mostly in texas. legalize hemp growing and everyone wont need ****ty cotton. anything cotton can do, hemp can do it better
Oh yeah even better! Forgot about that.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:43 PM #76
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If we secede, others will follow.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:47 PM #77
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You won't and the example you set would nip it in the bud.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:13 PM #78
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If we secede, others will follow.
you show that socialist black guy!

in all seriousness, would ANYONE give a **** if texas seceded?
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:16 PM #79
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you show that socialist black guy!

in all seriousness, would ANYONE give a **** if texas seceded?
For starters, the federal government would. They wouldn't want to give up the power, or rather the revenue.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:22 PM #80
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you show that socialist black guy!

in all seriousness, would ANYONE give a **** if texas seceded?
Would anyone give a **** if you seceded?
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:25 PM #81
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Texas doesn't own any nukes.
We've got plenty of nuclear waste...

No state is going to secede.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:37 PM #82
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Would anyone give a **** if you seceded?
um, i am not sure.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:55 PM #83
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Would Texas be Mexico's Canada? Or Americas Mexico?
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:56 PM #84
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You won't and the example you set would nip it in the bud.
I hope we don't. It would be stupid.
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