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Old 11-16-2012, 01:29 PM #22
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Then why come into a thread explicitly made to discuss just that?
Why not? Why start complaining about the answers people give to a question you didn't even ask?
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:23 PM #23
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I believe in extraterrestrials.. I believe that our ancestors knew about them just as some people do now, pictures and depictions are present throughout our history.. that being said i believe that every religion has some hint of truth to it. Most of them preach that beings came to our planet once before and taught us (like jesus or yeshua, some religions refer to them as star people). Once that is realized by our people we can live in harmony and stop picking on each other.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:28 PM #24
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I believe in extraterrestrials.. I believe that our ancestors knew about them just as some people do now, pictures and depictions are present throughout our history.. that being said i believe that every religion has some hint of truth to it. Most of them preach that beings came to our planet once before and taught us (like jesus or yeshua, some religions refer to them as star people). Once that is realized by our people we can live in harmony and stop picking on each other.
Assuming all that is true, why would that mean we would live in harmony once we realize it? What if we figure out that the extraterrestrials are even bigger a-holes than we are?
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:56 PM #25
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Originally Posted by Spock

Assuming all that is true, why would that mean we would live in harmony once we realize it? What if we figure out that the extraterrestrials are even bigger a-holes than we are?
Even people that agree on stuff like this can't quit fighting. It's going to take a lot more than aliens to unite the world.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:59 PM #26
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Uniting the world is incompatible with the world.
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Old 11-16-2012, 04:03 PM #27
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I believe in moral absolutes, the golden rule/ karma/ dharma (or whatever you want to label it) and responsibility/ hard work over entitlement.

I believe human nature is one of depravity and people, as a rule, lack respect for much of anything. People feel entitled and the fabricated idea of self-esteem somehow supersedes the more important principles of self-respect.

Work hard for your successes because nobody owes you anything. It is not a right to retire, to have name brands or to have insurance... natural selection would've weeded the parasitic losers out long ago had "government" (or religion) not intervened.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:19 PM #28
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Drunk?
I was pretty burntout when I posted that.

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I'm a drunk who realized that the key to understanding existence is to stop ****ing thinking.
lol somethin like that
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:23 PM #29
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Ok maybe 'harmony' was the wrong word to use... but think of how the world would be if we all knew/understood and listened to people of all beliefs, took a little from each religion and applied to your individual self instead of trying to push the "im right, youre wrong, heres why". I guess it would be a little more peaceful, religious wars would of never happened and humans could interact with each other a bit different.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:12 AM #30
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Ok maybe 'harmony' was the wrong word to use... but think of how the world would be if we all knew/understood and listened to people of all beliefs, took a little from each religion and applied to your individual self instead of trying to push the "im right, youre wrong, heres why". I guess it would be a little more peaceful, religious wars would of never happened and humans could interact with each other a bit different.
I know plenty of beliefs fairly well. Knowing what I know, there are a few of those beliefs that I wish never to be a part of a country I live in. I am perfectly fine with other nations believing what they will. A good reason to believe my way is better is because internally, people bicker over matters of religion; whereas externally, people invade others under the pretext of religion for tangible goals like resources. The difference between the two is that external religious conflict uses religion as a means to an end. Internal religious conflict uses religion as an end, the means differ but the result is almost inevitably instability.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:49 AM #31
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From what i took from that, i agree. Religion has been destorted, manipulated and fraudulant from the get go. The more powerful ones reign over those who 'failed' to reach a certain level of dominance over time and is the backbone of what we call 'superpower' governments based on the common right-and-wrong philosophies of the world.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:16 PM #32
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From what i took from that, i agree. Religion has been destorted, manipulated and fraudulant from the get go. The more powerful ones reign over those who 'failed' to reach a certain level of dominance over time and is the backbone of what we call 'superpower' governments based on the common right-and-wrong philosophies of the world.
You misunderstood completely.

I'll make an example for you. Hypothetically, if I was a Muslim, I would not want to live amongst anything but Muslims. I tolerate the existence of other philosophies and religions when they are practiced by other countries, but I will not tolerate them on my own soil.

Hopefully that is clear. You can substitute the word Muslim for anything. The reason I bring this up is the same reason why your view is wrong. You don't have to agree with my sentiment, you only have to agree that enough people seeing eye to eye with me is enough to completely invalidate your argument.

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Old 11-19-2012, 02:13 PM #33
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I agree with that also, and thats what im trying to say. People seeing eye to eye with you shouldnt discredit or belittle people that see eye to eye with me. We can all have our own beliefs, i just dont agree on the war of religion. Everyone should take what they need from their beliefs and leave it at that, and that being you and your followers believe what you want and let us over here believe what we want. The reason i say it was corrupted is because governments want that fear of religions that are too different from our own to help control us- and by 'control us' i just simply mean that our side has a strong hate for that side because of x,y,z reasons and builds a bond for hatred against those who believe in something else so we dont see it as wrong.
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:04 PM #34
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I agree with that also, and thats what im trying to say. People seeing eye to eye with you shouldnt discredit or belittle people that see eye to eye with me. We can all have our own beliefs, i just dont agree on the war of religion. Everyone should take what they need from their beliefs and leave it at that, and that being you and your followers believe what you want and let us over here believe what we want. The reason i say it was corrupted is because governments want that fear of religions that are too different from our own to help control us- and by 'control us' i just simply mean that our side has a strong hate for that side because of x,y,z reasons and builds a bond for hatred against those who believe in something else so we dont see it as wrong.
I dont see anything wrong with hating something or someone that would destroy your way of life, or is so fundamentally in error that it will destroy itself given the space to do so.
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:52 PM #35
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Well thats exactly what we are facing.. self destruction. Im not saying dont protect yourself but it shouldnt have to come down to that. It is an error- religion has gone too far.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:08 PM #36
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Well thats exactly what we are facing.. self destruction. Im not saying dont protect yourself but it shouldnt have to come down to that. It is an error- religion has gone too far.
In what respect are we facing self destruction?

"Where ever an altar is found, there civilization exists."

If you plan on telling me that religion is going to be responsible for the destruction of the human race, I will depart from this conversation.

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Old 11-19-2012, 06:08 PM #37
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Originally Posted by Mainevent#1
. It is an error- religion has gone too far.
Kept the part I disagree with.

Have you ever taken a history class? Religion has lost TONS of power. In medieval times, Classical Greece, Ancient Egypt, all the way back to Mesopotamia, religion has controlled large portions of society and government. It's been very much scaled back in modern times. It no longer can tell you an entire country what to do or fear.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:57 PM #38
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No im not saying it will be the destruction of the human race but it has cost alot of lives and still does in some places. Maybe destruction is the wrong word, ill put it closer to religionism. The hatred of someone based on their belief, i may or may not of just made that up.. im not trying to argue with anyones beliefs, if anything i just want more insight on this kind of stuff so i can improve my beliefs. so thank you for challenging me- i appreciate the professional approach thats not really found around pbn.

And yes i have taken a history class, granted it was atleast 6 years ago lol. I agree that religion has lost alot of power but i think it would be safe to say that the power has been merged in with governments which in fact can tell an entire country what to do or fear. Like i said guys im not tryin to piss anyone off i just want some different perspectives!
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:18 AM #39
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No im not saying it will be the destruction of the human race but it has cost alot of lives and still does in some places. Maybe destruction is the wrong word, ill put it closer to religionism. The hatred of someone based on their belief, i may or may not of just made that up.. im not trying to argue with anyones beliefs, if anything i just want more insight on this kind of stuff so i can improve my beliefs. so thank you for challenging me- i appreciate the professional approach thats not really found around pbn.

And yes i have taken a history class, granted it was atleast 6 years ago lol. I agree that religion has lost alot of power but i think it would be safe to say that the power has been merged in with governments which in fact can tell an entire country what to do or fear. Like i said guys im not tryin to piss anyone off i just want some different perspectives!
We kill people in the name of secular democracy. Pol pot shot church going folk in the name of equality. Africam warlords stage military coups using drugged up children as soldiers. What makes you think that suddenly the absence of religion will change the fundamental nature of existence?
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:35 PM #40
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We kill people in the name of secular democracy. Pol pot shot church going folk in the name of equality. Africam warlords stage military coups using drugged up children as soldiers. What makes you think that suddenly the absence of religion will change the fundamental nature of existence?
I couldn't agree more.

Taken at face value Abrahamic "Christianity" is a somewhat exclusive religion... peoples' perversion twisted the interpretations of scripture to create a powerful money making church. Again, I believe this is a testimony to human nature without intervention. The real question is what is the intervention? Church? Government? Disaster? The fact is that left alone humans are inherently evil.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:00 PM #41
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I couldn't agree more.

Taken at face value Abrahamic "Christianity" is a somewhat exclusive religion... peoples' perversion twisted the interpretations of scripture to create a powerful money making church. Again, I believe this is a testimony to human nature without intervention. The real question is what is the intervention? Church? Government? Disaster? The fact is that left alone humans are inherently evil.
Christianity is exclusive in the way that Islam is exclusive. Each is modified Judaism to fit the innermost weltanshauung of the European and the Arab respectively. I don't believe that the Cathlic Church represents a twist of scripture, I would attribute that at least to the Protestants.

Let's take a less modern perspective for a moment and consider whether man is evil. Here is a Vedic (Indo-European) and Platonic view:

The highest order of human existence is war. It begins as ideas which must inevitably be fought and won with the spilling of blood. If all existence is pure will and energy, all consciousness is collective, then what significance is the preservation of the individual instance which comprises the totality of existence? If the former is true, in what place can dualism exist besides ignorance?
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:24 PM #42
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Christianity is exclusive in the way that Islam is exclusive. Each is modified Judaism to fit the innermost weltanshauung of the European and the Arab respectively. I don't believe that the Cathlic Church represents a twist of scripture, I would attribute that at least to the Protestants.

Let's take a less modern perspective for a moment and consider whether man is evil. Here is a Vedic (Indo-European) and Platonic view:

The highest order of human existence is war. It begins as ideas which must inevitably be fought and won with the spilling of blood. If all existence is pure will and energy, all consciousness is collective, then what significance is the preservation of the individual instance which comprises the totality of existence? If the former is true, in what place can dualism exist besides ignorance?
Christianity is European? So why did they pick a Jewish carpenter for their God? The popular idea of Christianity is skewed by European interpretations and sources. When you say modified Judaism, I'm assuming that you mean because the old testament is similar? The exclusivity that I was referring is described in great lengths in both the old testament and new, however, the books written by Paul (found in the new testament) do the most to explain.


I also don't believe that "individual instance" has much, if any, significance to the "totality of existence." The idea of free thought is overrated and the concept individualism is ludicrous. Much of the moral decay seen in American society today can be attributed to that hippie epiphany. You can conform or not. If you conform then are you a voluntary part of a "collective conscience?" If you object then are you "individual?" Either way there's millions more exactly like you.

I would propose that the highest order of human existence is voluntary servant-hood.
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