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Old 11-06-2012, 07:07 PM #64
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So it means nothing in terms of performance gains, here i was hoping for a massive efficiency increase. Anyway, my clone is efficienct enough for what i need.

Im waiting in patience to see the VX parts in action
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:34 AM #65
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Oh you'll see gains it's just not like you'll be getting true 80fps gains because the bolt simply can't cycle at 8ms normally. IT should make it get another pod maybe a pod and a half. Because you'll be setting your gun up for effciency when you normally run stock settings. You could see gains with tuning your gun but this will make your gun actually release all the air in a shorter time and more towards the end of the cycle so you have less air lost. It'll result in a crisper shot, or it should in principle. The VX may get better I'm not sure on how it's shot's timing is compared to the GT. Really the gun could be more efficient all depending on how they mill the inside of the bolt and how long they make the power tube but that would sacrifice smoothness and shot quality where as this doesn't.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:32 PM #66
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from what i understand of how macdev spools work, and i could be wrong here, the marker is supposed to dump all of the air inside, out of the bolt, through the barrel. if all of the air doesn't leave the bolt in the dwell time set, that air that didn't pass through the bolt will be vented out the solenoid, wasting the air. this should alleviate some of that
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:12 PM #67
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got the mod today.

Some quick impressions:

It is as pooty described in the vid, but how you lower the DWELL IS DEPENDENT ON HOW YOUR CLONE SHOOTS.

This is important because pooty's suggestion of 8 didn't work for me. It was extremely erratic for my GT.

It's best to start at stock (12) and find your desired FPS, then lower the dwell until your FPS changes, then increase it by 1. For me, this was 10.

I would shoot 280 easily with the mod but w/o it, it would be at 200 at that dwell. Going to 9 would just make my fps go haywire, regardless of the mod.

Last edited by dak22 : 11-07-2012 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:16 PM #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhazedReality818 View Post
from what i understand of how macdev spools work, and i could be wrong here, the marker is supposed to dump all of the air inside, out of the bolt, through the barrel. if all of the air doesn't leave the bolt in the dwell time set, that air that didn't pass through the bolt will be vented out the solenoid, wasting the air. this should alleviate some of that
that is wrong, the only air dumped to shoot the ball is in the dump chamber.
pooty understands some of the science behind the workings of the gun and without letting too much go this mod can increase efficiency.

Dak22 if you are seeing erratic velocity i would check the lube on the drivetrain, try the newest militia lube and clean all the old stuff off.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:16 PM #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dak22 View Post
got the mod today.

Some quick impressions:

It is as pooty described in the vid, but how you lower the DWELL IS DEPENDANT ON HOW YOUR CLONE SHOOTS.

This is important because pooty's suggestion of 8 didn't work for me. It was extremely erratic for my GT.

It's best to start at stock (12) and find your desired FPS, then lower the dwell until your FPS changes, then increase it by 1. For me, this was 10.

I would shoot 280 easily with the mod but w/o it, it would be at 200 at that dwell. Going to 9 would just make my fps go haywire, regardless of the mod.
Running with a dwell at 10 that bad boy must of been butter and no kick?
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:31 PM #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James@MacDev View Post
that is wrong, the only air dumped to shoot the ball is in the dump chamber.
pooty understands some of the science behind the workings of the gun and without letting too much go this mod can increase efficiency.

Dak22 if you are seeing erratic velocity i would check the lube on the drivetrain, try the newest militia lube and clean all the old stuff off.
Not only am I using the new militia lube since I got it a while back, but I just placed a fresh battery an hr ago as well.

At a dwell of 10 with the mod, it shoots butter w/o any hiccups like in pooty's vid. +/- 4 w/ at 80fps difference b/w mod and no mod.

At 9 is when everything becomes unpredictable regardless of what I do.

Last edited by dak22 : 11-07-2012 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:41 PM #71
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:06 PM #72
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makes me wanna try this mod!
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:36 PM #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dak22

Not only am I using the new militia lube since I got it a while back, but I just placed a fresh battery an hr ago as well.

At a dwell of 10 with the mod, it shoots butter w/o any hiccups like in pooty's vid. +/- 4 w/ at 80fps difference b/w mod and no mod.

At 9 is when everything becomes unpredictable regardless of what I do.
I'm curious now. Do you know what your pressure was at.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:38 PM #74
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thanks for the response brother.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:43 AM #75
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I'm curious now. Do you know what your pressure was at.
Same pressure I usually use at a dwell of 12 for 280: about 100 psi.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:37 AM #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srtjay View Post
Running with a dwell at 10 that bad boy must of been butter and no kick?
Why is a low dwell smoother?

Quote:
Originally Posted by James@MacDev View Post
pooty understands some of the science behind the workings of the gun and without letting too much go this mod can increase efficiency.
Why are you not letting to much go? It can increase efficiency by raising pressure and sealing off the dump chamber before fully emptying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dak22 View Post
At a dwell of 10 with the mod, it shoots butter w/o any hiccups like in pooty's vid. +/- 4 w/ at 80fps difference b/w mod and no mod.
People need to stop saying 80fps increase. What is the fps difference between stock bolt and stock dwell and then the modded bolt and lowered dwell?


The video is very misleading as people are thinking they will see 80fps over stock. Call the mod what it is. It will eliminate bolt stick and slightly increase efficiency.
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:01 AM #77
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People need to stop saying 80fps increase. What is the fps difference between stock bolt and stock dwell and then the modded bolt and lowered dwell?


The video is very misleading as people are thinking they will see 80fps over stock. Call the mod what it is. It will eliminate bolt stick and slightly increase efficiency.
Where did I say it would increase FPS at stock dwell?

98 pro, at the top of this page, and others beforehand explained why this isn't the case, so I didn't mention anything about it because I assumed people would read the posts.

At stock, nothing changes regardless of whether the mod is in or not. Simply put, it lets you keep stock settings at lower dwells depending on your GT. What I was trying to get at, with my impressions, is that you're going to have to play with your GT to find which dwell it works best at instead of relying on a specific number.

At my GT's preferred dwell (10), I get the 80 fps difference like the vid illustrates b/w mod or no mod. Putting it back to stock changes nothing except not needing the mod to get at the desired fps range. Putting at 9 makes it erratic to jump to any conclusion regardless.

Last edited by dak22 : 11-08-2012 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:02 AM #78
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any update on the older clones (i.e. - v1, v2 and vx).

Also can you drop the GT can and bolt in an older clone that is not VX?
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:21 AM #79
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Leave this hee so more of you cn understand how the fun works. I know it's a dorid but it's all essentially the same.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:19 PM #80
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Why are you not letting to much go? It can increase efficiency by raising pressure and sealing off the dump chamber before fully emptying.
the spring does not have anything to do with sealing off the dump chamber, it does not raise pressure either.

this is a good mod by pooty, we have one here at the factory and have done some testing of our own on it.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:46 PM #81
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the spring does not have anything to do with sealing off the dump chamber, it does not raise pressure either.

this is a good mod by pooty, we have one here at the factory and have done some testing of our own on it.
So are you guys getting the same results or ????
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:16 PM #82
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I'm just ready to send my parts in for my vx lol, its getting pretty cold in MI
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:32 PM #83
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Originally Posted by James@MacDev View Post
the spring does not have anything to do with sealing off the dump chamber, it does not raise pressure either.

this is a good mod by pooty, we have one here at the factory and have done some testing of our own on it.
I'll clarify what I meant. I meant the owner of the marker can increase efficiency by increasing pressure and lowering dwell with this mod. The gun needs to empty the dump chamber in order to reach a desired velocity. This takes time. The dwell is set to make sure that happens. Too short and the bolt returns before all the air comes out and you lose velocity. Too long and it is wasted time. No real downside as the dump chamber is sealed so it will not continuously vent air and most everyone shoots 12.5 so the drop in max bps is not important. The spring increases bolt speed which is why you can lower your dwell and not lose velocity. It takes 12ms for the stock drivetrain to go forward and dump the air before coming back. With pooty's mod the bolt travels forward faster due to the spring force (overcoming stiction as well a pushing the bolt). That is why you can lower the dwell a couple of milliseconds. You can increase efficiency slightly by increasing pressure. There is a balance between pressure and volume to reach your velocity. You can use less air (volume) at a higher pressure or more air at a lower pressure. Generally higher pressure lower volume gives better efficiency. The faster bolt speed also makes it slightly easier to get a gain this way by releasing the air all at once/quicker than a slower bolt so more air acts directly on the ball although it is very minimal difference.

I think this mod is great for bolt stick (not really efficiency) and I would personally use it at stock dwell. I just don't like the way the mod was sold with "80fps increases". It should be an anti bolt stick mod in my eyes and advertised as such but that's my opinion and every business owner as well as consumer has a right to do what they choose.
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Last edited by Jinx18 : 11-08-2012 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:00 AM #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinx18 View Post
I'll clarify what I meant. I meant the owner of the marker can increase efficiency by increasing pressure and lowering dwell with this mod. The gun needs to empty the dump chamber in order to reach a desired velocity. This takes time. The dwell is set to make sure that happens. Too short and the bolt returns before all the air comes out and you lose velocity. Too long and it is wasted time. No real downside as the dump chamber is sealed so it will not continuously vent air and most everyone shoots 12.5 so the drop in max bps is not important. The spring increases bolt speed which is why you can lower your dwell and not lose velocity. It takes 12ms for the stock drivetrain to go forward and dump the air before coming back. With pooty's mod the bolt travels forward faster due to the spring force (overcoming stiction as well a pushing the bolt). That is why you can lower the dwell a couple of milliseconds. You can increase efficiency slightly by increasing pressure. There is a balance between pressure and volume to reach your velocity. You can use less air (volume) at a higher pressure or more air at a lower pressure. Generally higher pressure lower volume gives better efficiency. The faster bolt speed also makes it slightly easier to get a gain this way by releasing the air all at once/quicker than a slower bolt so more air acts directly on the ball although it is very minimal difference.

I think this mod is great for bolt stick (not really efficiency) and I would personally use it at stock dwell. I just don't like the way the mod was sold with "80fps increases". It should be an anti bolt stick mod in my eyes and advertised as such but that's my opinion and every business owner as well as consumer has a right to do what they choose.
Are you really trying to argue with a guy that helped design the clone?
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