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Old 10-19-2012, 07:11 PM #1
greatsoccerman
 
 
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paintball growing

i know this has been disscussed a million times but i was wondering a lot of ppl have been saying that tournament ball is dying because of cost. My questions are why are they allowing ramp mode? all it does it slow down the game and help ppl shoot a ton of paint. Wouldnt it grow if teams used more strategy than spray a pray? I just went to a new paintball tournement for newer players to get used to more competetive play and the other teams would shoot 3-4 pods at least a game. sometimes even more and its 3v3. our team used half a hopper each to take out a team just cause we played more angels and aggressive than shooting paint. I just wanted to get my 2 cents out about this topic and discuss it with some ppl. I dont get why ppl say its to expensive when they are shooting 1000 balls a game and half the time (from the tournament i just played) i was behind my bunker and they kept shooting.
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:28 PM #2
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I played events and shot 1 case all day with a few pods left, 3 man psp 12.5

Ive also shot 4 pods and a hopper in practice on semi in one game

People will shoot as much on semi as ramping, truth is the more paint you throw the more chances you have to hit. Maye some people cant aim and its a crutch, maybe some people hit the opposing players but are getting bounces. Either way people will shoot lots of paint unless the rof cap is lower. Im ok with 12.5, but wouldnt mind a 10 bps cap.
Then again i dont play events anymore sooooo, guess my opinion is irrelevant.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:07 PM #3
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Then again i dont play events anymore sooooo, guess my opinion is irrelevant.
Why did you stop playing events?
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:04 AM #4
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There is always the option of limiting the amount of paint on the field. Which im not in full agreement about but i can definitly see how that would make people chose there shots more
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Old 10-20-2012, 07:58 PM #5
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I think the question you're really begging to ask is why isn't there a very low cap like 4-8bps in tournaments. Semi or ramp doesn't matter, people with tournament ready gear will be able to shoot very fast, and when you start getting into competitive paintball everyone is shooting a lot of paint.

At high levels of play the amount of paint in the air makes teams really use strategy to push the envelope and in the upper divisions this really forces players to be more athletic because all the windows of opportunity are smaller.


I suppose we could change the game completely with less paint, maybe a test run, and a possible way to make it more spectator friendly, but there's a lot of things to consider, and paint companies are going to be resistant to that change as well as high end gun companies because they will have to change the designs or focus of their markers as speed and efficiency would likely be valued less.
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:19 PM #6
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No i think if you can pull the trigger 100 times a second then more power to you but if you limit the paint maybe to 3-5 pods a game it would really make you think twice about lighting up someone bunker. I understand the more paint you shoot the more chances are you will hit someone. But if the sport is so fun why wouldnt it be growing. i understand 40-70 a case is expensive and can really add up and people would hesitate to get into it a sport that takes so much money. I want paintball to grow cause i love to play and want mroe tournaments and stuff going on.

I guess for it to get big as in spectator sport you would need to make different changes. I read some where dude was saying wear clothes that make the paint stand out more when you are hit, and have it were teams have to make bigger moves.
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:15 PM #7
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I suppose we could change the game completely with less paint, maybe a test run, and a possible way to make it more spectator friendly, but there's a lot of things to consider, and paint companies are going to be resistant to that change as well as high end gun companies because they will have to change the designs or focus of their markers as speed and efficiency would likely be valued less.
I'm not sure how the manufacturers would feel about that, especially the paint companies. It's a double edged sword for them. You have to remember it was the manufacturers that went to the two major leagues a couple of years back and told them they needed to lower their rate of fire (in hopes that it would trickle down to the local field level). So I don't think the paint manufacturers would be totally against it, if it meant increasing the number of players.
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Old 10-20-2012, 10:40 PM #8
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I also have the same problem, thank you guys.

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Old 10-20-2012, 11:24 PM #9
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The paint per game has to be limited. I say have uncapped semi-only, but you only get 200 paintballs per round. That way, you can still shoot as fast as you want if you need to but you can't just sit there and hold down a lane or bunker forever.

I'm not sure I agree that shooting unlimited paint somehow increases strategy. I think it's the total opposite. Basically every airball game starts out as a stalemate. Then someone gets a kill by shooting 500 paintballs at one bunker. Then people shift a little bit and repeat. It's boring as hell to watch tournament level paintball. You may think it's fun, but that's because you play the game. For anyone else, it looks totally boring and not at all exciting like they thought paintball would be. It's not athletic, it's not exciting, it's just a stalemate and bunch of noise. Trust me, that's what non-paintball players see when they watch it. They see a guy hiding behind a bunker and pouring pod after pod into his hopper with balls falling out, shooting the whole time. It's looks like a total mess because it is.

Think about it. The most exciting part of a game is when people are moving, not when they are just shooting. The crowd cheers when they start to see movement, not when they see someone shooting. As a player, the excitement comes when an opponent moves and you have to yell it out and shift your own play. So that tells you that movement is what makes paintball exciting. With less paint, you have to move more. More moving means more excitement.

Guys are just fooled into thinking all the shooting is what makes it exciting. But it's fake. All that noise off the break makes you think it's intense.

Last edited by crakbot : 10-20-2012 at 11:27 PM.
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Old 10-21-2012, 03:10 AM #10
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The paint per game has to be limited. I say have uncapped semi-only, but you only get 200 paintballs per round. That way, you can still shoot as fast as you want if you need to but you can't just sit there and hold down a lane or bunker forever.

I'm not sure I agree that shooting unlimited paint somehow increases strategy. I think it's the total opposite. Basically every airball game starts out as a stalemate. Then someone gets a kill by shooting 500 paintballs at one bunker. Then people shift a little bit and repeat. It's boring as hell to watch tournament level paintball. You may think it's fun, but that's because you play the game. For anyone else, it looks totally boring and not at all exciting like they thought paintball would be. It's not athletic, it's not exciting, it's just a stalemate and bunch of noise. Trust me, that's what non-paintball players see when they watch it. They see a guy hiding behind a bunker and pouring pod after pod into his hopper with balls falling out, shooting the whole time. It's looks like a total mess because it is.

Think about it. The most exciting part of a game is when people are moving, not when they are just shooting. The crowd cheers when they start to see movement, not when they see someone shooting. As a player, the excitement comes when an opponent moves and you have to yell it out and shift your own play. So that tells you that movement is what makes paintball exciting. With less paint, you have to move more. More moving means more excitement.

Guys are just fooled into thinking all the shooting is what makes it exciting. But it's fake. All that noise off the break makes you think it's intense.
Your point has some validity, but you are shooting yourself in the foot by tying them to what is interesting to a spectator. When I'm playing, I really don't care if laning the other team's back guy is engaging to a spectator or not. Why should I? I'm the one paying money to practice or compete in a tournament. If someone finds enjoyment in watching, then great. However, I'm not going to change to some new game type so that some random guy can be entertained.
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Old 10-21-2012, 09:36 AM #11
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I quit playing tournament ball for several reasons. The first I'll mention is that I saw a lot of cheating and that does not sit well with me.

The second reason is that once you move on into your mid to late 20s and beyond, you typically incur a lot more responsibilities than your typical 18-24 year-old. My friends and I could simply not put enough time or money into competitive paintball. And I don't feel like being on a team with 16-year-olds, sorry.

And finally, not just cost, but the cost/fun ratio. I was spending $100+ per tournament and measuring my playing time in minutes, not hours. I can play rec ball and get a lot more playing time for less money. But what really drives the cost up is paint. Whether people are ramping or not, tourney play seems to require a ridiculous amount of shooting. (Though with ramping, it's definitely worse than uncapped semi.) I don't think lowering the bps to 10 would really make a difference -- people would still shoot non-stop.

If you want to reduce the cost of tourney play -- limit the paint. It would greatly change the dynamic of the game (for the better) in my opinion, and make it much better for spectators. I've been saying that for at least 17 years. Nobody listens.

My $.02, for what it's worth.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:55 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSherman View Post
Your point has some validity, but you are shooting yourself in the foot by tying them to what is interesting to a spectator. When I'm playing, I really don't care if laning the other team's back guy is engaging to a spectator or not. Why should I? I'm the one paying money to practice or compete in a tournament. If someone finds enjoyment in watching, then great. However, I'm not going to change to some new game type so that some random guy can be entertained.
There's the issue. In tournament paintball in it's current form the players aren't the "product", they're the "customers". Spectators are more of an afterthought.

If you shift it so that the spectators become the primary source of income for the tournament you now have a situation where things like entry fees for teams become unneeded. If the income from the spectators becomes lucrative enough teams might not even have to pay for paint to compete (this would most likely be tied to a limited paint environment, to keep costs more fixed). If it proves to be really profitable teams might even get PAID TO PLAY.

The one big issue with this is that at that point you don't need a whole lot of tournament players any more. Just the best of the best, or at least the most entertaining.
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:52 PM #13
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that is what makes other sports big is spectators. You would have to change your style of play but it would still be a whole bunch of fun. There is nothing wrong with shooting a lot of paint but like the dude said its just stalemates. And if you could pack a statium full of ppl to watch paintball how fun would that be for the player and the fans. Although it could get loud and it would be hard to communicate. I dont think hopper ball is nessassary more like just a few pods. And the more ppl playing the more paint cases would be selling.

And i agree with the play time deal. It kind sucks to go out to a tournament and play 6 or so games and get eliminated when you could go play some ball all day at your local shop. But just the fact that its a competition makes it worth it.

Paintball could be a really fun sport to watch. Ppl just need to understand it more and appricate how hard it is to play. Like golf i hate watching golf on tv but the ppl that understand how the sport is done and everything involved like it. So some how there needs to be a way to get ppl to understand the sport and want to watch it. The sport wont go anywhere if no one wants to watch it or get involved in it.

And ramping mode needs to go (in my opinion) when i get bunkered and that dude has ramping mode on and just from the aderinaline and stuff pulls that trigger 5 times and 13 balls hits me its no fun. But think of how someone on his first tournament plays and that gets done and its a littler kid. If it was semi auto those 5 pulls would have been 5 balls.
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Old 10-21-2012, 05:34 PM #14
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I would like to see some of the tournaments to have some "exhibition" matches where the top teams play with limited paint. Just to see what happens. Have it at the end and make it for bragging rights.

I'm willing to bet you'll see those matches become the most popular and the most anticipated both with spectators and players.

As for the manufactures not liking the idea of using less paint, that's not even an issue. Manufactures sell all their paint at local fields, the amount purchased at tournaments is probably less than 1% of their total sales when compared to the amount sold around the world everyday at local fields. Also, just because you shoot less paint at your local field, that just means more games. You'll still go through a case, but you'll play a lot more games with that case. The amount of paint used will be the same, but you'll get more playing time.
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Old 10-22-2012, 07:35 AM #15
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Idk how you would do this but ive read a lot of ppl saying that tournaments are to short. Like you dont get to play as much as rec. Which is a no brainer but how would you suggest ways of changing this so more ppl want to play tournaments. and maybe if the games became like an hour long and it was the same race to 2 format or whatever. where you have half you team on and you have 2 minutes after each game to get ready and go again. I see how that would be a down side cause what about the other 50 teams that joined in. you would have like week long tournaments. Anyone got any ideas.
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