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Old 11-05-2012, 05:17 PM #736
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Originally Posted by aresfiend View Post
I wasn't arguing the ones that I ignored, not the ones that I had kept arguing. I gave up on the ones that I ignored. That's conceding it.
No, that's called ignoring the point. Conceding is saying alright, I see you're point, your right, I agree with you. Ignoring is what you did, not conceding. Seriously dude, give up. You suck at arguing and have yet to make any kind of valid points or defenses.
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:18 PM #737
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Originally Posted by aresfiend View Post
The reason the DM12 price dropped is because the DM13 was about to be released. The DM13 is internally a DM12 in all regards, they just added a number and made a smaller window. That's the point of this entire argument, that they kept the price up even though companies who haven't released new ones haven't kept the price up and have dropped it accordingly
Oh right. Tell me, how much have these guns dropped in price:
Axe
Etek 4
Etha
G4
G3
G6r
Geo3
Rail
Reflex Rail
Dangerous Power FX
Rev-I
Mini
Vapor

(I'll give you a hint. They haven't)
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:18 PM #738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randomdean100 View Post
No, that's called ignoring the point. Conceding is saying alright, I see you're point, your right, I agree with you. Ignoring is what you did, not conceding. Seriously dude, give up. You suck at arguing and have yet to make any kind of valid points or defenses.
So wait, you're at the point where you're hijacking a thread just to try and slander me?

I mean, I can understand me being wrong and all, but at this point you're just being a douchebag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSherman View Post
Oh right. Tell me, how much have these guns dropped in price:
Axe
Etek 4
Etha
G4
G3
G6r
Geo3
Rail
Reflex Rail
Dangerous Power FX
Rev-I
Mini
Vapor
First off, the Etek 4, Etha, Geo 3, certain iterations of the Reflex Rail and G6R, and the Vapor all came out in 2012.

Also, lower end guns I'm not expecting to drop in price aside from the Mini because that's been going for 4 years, the G3 hasn't even been available for a while, the G4 has seen price drops (I don't remeber when, but from $330 to $300), the Axe is (Hopefully) dropping in price but I don't support it anyway, the DP FX has been ignored enough, I thought the Rev-I dropped from $1000 to $850 (?), the Rail dropped from $300 to $250, and the Reflex Rail is yearly and that has dropped accordingly.

Last edited by aresfiend : 11-05-2012 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:25 PM #739
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Originally Posted by aresfiend View Post
So wait, you're at the point where you're hijacking a thread just to try and slander me?

I mean, I can understand me being wrong and all, but at this point you're just being a douchebag.
you've been an arrogant jerk this entire time. Asking for peoples credentials in electrical components threatening not to listen to them if they don't prove it, yet continuing to put your falsities about how **** works without listing your own credentials. ignoring posts, trying to cover up clearly misinterpreted statements by saying you just conceded the point instead? No sir I am not being a douchebag, I am only responding in the same manner that you have been speaking to people this entire time. Look in the mirror, there you will find the feminine hygiene product that you speak of.
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:29 PM #740
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Originally Posted by randomdean100 View Post
you've been an arrogant jerk this entire time. Asking for peoples credentials in electrical components threatening not to listen to them if they don't prove it, yet continuing to put your falsities about how **** works without listing your own credentials. ignoring posts, trying to cover up clearly misinterpreted statements by saying you just conceded the point instead? No sir I am not being a douchebag, I am only responding in the same manner that you have been speaking to people this entire time. Look in the mirror, there you will find the feminine hygiene product that you speak of.
So wait... You are mad?

I'm sorry, this is just too funny. I never asked ANYONE for their credentials, I asked them if they knew anything about a certain subject and I would disregard them if they didn't, but you are mislead and are, in fact, being a douchebag. I did not ignore posts, I chose not to answer them, it's as simple as that.
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:32 PM #741
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So wait... You are mad?

I'm sorry, this is just too funny. I never asked ANYONE for their credentials, I asked them if they knew anything about a certain subject and I would disregard them if they didn't, but you are mislead and are, in fact, being a douchebag. I did not ignore posts, I chose not to answer them, it's as simple as that.
How do you get me being mad for just stating what is fairly obvious in the first place? lulz have been had, either you're a good troll or an imbecile.
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:33 PM #742
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How do you get me being mad for just stating what is fairly obvious in the first place? lulz have been had, either you're a good troll or an imbecile.
So let me get this straight.... You're mad and are trying to pass it off as me being an imbecile?

Seems legit.
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:34 PM #743
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Originally Posted by aresfiend View Post
So wait, you're at the point where you're hijacking a thread just to try and slander me?

I mean, I can understand me being wrong and all, but at this point you're just being a douchebag.



First off, the Etek 4, Etha, Geo 3, certain iterations of the Reflex Rail and G6R, and the Vapor all came out in 2012.

Also, lower end guns I'm not expecting to drop in price aside from the Mini because that's been going for 4 years, the G3 hasn't even been available for a while, the G4 has seen price drops (I don't remeber when, but from $330 to $300), the Axe is (Hopefully) dropping in price but I don't support it anyway, the DP FX has been ignored enough, I thought the Rev-I dropped from $1000 to $850 (?), the Rail dropped from $300 to $250, and the Reflex Rail is yearly and that has dropped accordingly.
The point is that the guns I listed that came out this year will not drop in price next year. All the drops you mentioned except the Rev-I are minor drops resulting from competition, not drops on the side of the manufacturer. Guns don't need to drop in price from year to year, and they also don't need to be significantly improved from year to year. To suggest otherwise is just moronic.
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:44 PM #744
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The point is that the guns I listed that came out this year will not drop in price next year. All the drops you mentioned except the Rev-I are minor drops resulting from competition, not drops on the side of the manufacturer. Guns don't need to drop in price from year to year, and they also don't need to be significantly improved from year to year. To suggest otherwise is just moronic.
The thing is though, that Dye DOES have competition in their price level and to re-release the same marker in a new body with a number one digit higher at the same price is all because of competition, but the thing with the competition is that I can expect upgrades. Luxe 1.5 to 2.0 had some noteworthy upgrades and the MacDev Clone VX to the Clone GT had some very noteworthy upgrades. Yes they reset the price, but they actually gave more. That's why I don't care about any DM until the 13, the DM12 did have some notable advances over the DM11, however the DM13 is so close to the DM12 that they would have been better off pulling a planet eclipse and leaving the same marker at the same price instead of making new bodies for 2013 markers.
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:46 PM #745
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The thing is though, that Dye DOES have competition in their price level and to re-release the same marker in a new body with a number one digit higher at the same price is all because of competition, but the thing with the competition is that I can expect upgrades. Luxe 1.5 to 2.0 had some noteworthy upgrades and the MacDev Clone VX to the Clone GT had some very noteworthy upgrades. Yes they reset the price, but they actually gave more. That's why I don't care about any DM until the 13, the DM12 did have some notable advances over the DM11, however the DM13 is so close to the DM12 that they would have been better off pulling a planet eclipse and leaving the same marker at the same price instead of making new bodies for 2013 markers.
As long as DLX sold the Luxe, or Luxe 1.5, it cost the same amount. The price didn't drop because the gun got older. You are clearly not understanding what I'm saying. If the price is the same from year to year, which it would be anyway, why not release new millings.
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:49 PM #746
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As long as DLX sold the Luxe, or Luxe 1.5, it cost the same amount. The price didn't drop because the gun got older. You are clearly not understanding what I'm saying. If the price is the same from year to year, which it would be anyway, why not release new millings.
Good point, the entire two years between the Luxe and Luxe 1.5 it didn't drop because of age, but the Luxe 1.5 dropped from $1,650 to $1,500 in early 2011 and stayed there through the release of the Luxe 2.0.
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:52 PM #747
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but the Luxe 1.5 dropped from $1,650 to $1,500 in early 2011 and stayed there through the release of the Luxe 2.0.
And?
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:57 PM #748
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And?
And it already fits in the timeframe for regular depreciation that everything else does. I also forgot that the original Luxe did drop to $1,500 in mid/late 2009.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:05 PM #749
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And it already fits in the timeframe for regular depreciation that everything else does. I also forgot that the original Luxe did drop to $1,500 in mid/late 2009.
How long did it take the shocker to drop in price? Have any of bl's guns dropped in price over their lifetimes without a new version coming out? Aliens? vanguards? Angels(when they were still around)? Also did dlx have to retool their machines for each year? Redesign cad files for each year? New marketing for each year(not counting years from 1.0 to 1.5, 1.5 to 2.0)? no, they saved money on retooling, redesigning, marketing, etc... Dye has some investment into each yearly release, other companies not doing yearly releases don't have to go through all of the aforementioned costs each year...
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:13 PM #750
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How long did it take the shocker to drop in price? Have any of bl's guns dropped in price over their lifetimes without a new version coming out? Aliens? vanguards? Angels(when they were still around)? Also did dlx have to retool their machines for each year? Redesign cad files for each year? New marketing for each year(not counting years from 1.0 to 1.5, 1.5 to 2.0)? no, they saved money on retooling, redesigning, marketing, etc... Dye has some investment into each yearly release, other companies not doing yearly releases don't have to go through all of the aforementioned costs each year...
The Shocker NXT dropped in price by 2009 because it was dated and showing it's age, that and Smart Parts died. The Angel AR:K dropped from $900 to $770 on ANS in May of 2011. Vanguards, well, I have no idea since I haven't reliably seen them in a US retailer. Aliens are yearly release.

Honestly, Dye would save more money by keeping the DM13 for a few years and just not dropping the price than making a DM14 and retooling to get the price to what the DM13 could have been if what you're saying is true. So, tell me why they don't?
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:15 PM #751
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Honestly, Dye would save more money by keeping the DM13 for a few years and just not dropping the price than making a DM14 and retooling to get the price to what the DM13 could have been if what you're saying is true. So, tell me why they don't?
Would they? Again you're talking in specifics and absolutes on the financials of a company that you do not have access to. They don't because they don't want to, maybe they like refreshing the matrix each year, maybe they make more money, we do not know their motives nor does it matter what their motives are. The fact of the matter is that they should not be hated as a company when they aren't even doing anything wrong.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:19 PM #752
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DYE's perspective: if the system that has brought the company continued profits, don't change it. Thats exactly what they are doing
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:22 PM #753
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Would they? Again you're talking in specifics and absolutes on the financials of a company that you do not have access to. They don't because they don't want to, maybe they like refreshing the matrix each year, maybe they make more money, we do not know their motives nor does it matter what their motives are. The fact of the matter is that they should not be hated as a company when they aren't even doing anything wrong.
I never said that I hated the company, that's where you're wrong.

Honestly, if they did with the DMs what they did with the i4s they'd probably be able to rake in just as much, maybe even more because you could purchase a DM without expecting the resale to go down $400 before the next season even starts. Yes they're releasing new "2013" colors of the i4 for a little bit extra, but they aren't calling it an i5.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:34 PM #754
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Originally Posted by JohnSherman

Good way to ignore a point you can't counter. Your central argument is that Dye is bad because they are releasing a gun with the same internals and new milling. Bob Long is doing the same thing. Are you claiming that is different?
Ahhhh an intelligent post. Completely wrong though. Not at all my argument. No where did I say or even imply that DYE was a bad company. I said people are upset with their annual practices. I said continuing of that practice COULD eventually lead to some of their customer base leaving.
BL releases different milling options of the same G6R. Its advertised as a new mill NOT a new gun. That's equivalent to DYE releasing different graphic anno jobs for their DMs. Did you hear me complain about that? No you didn't. Your attempt to debate me is completely off base.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:43 PM #755
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Ahhhh an intelligent post. Completely wrong though. Not at all my argument. No where did I say or even imply that DYE was a bad company. I said people are upset with their annual practices. I said continuing of that practice COULD eventually lead to some of their customer base leaving.
BL releases different milling options of the same G6R. Its advertised as a new mill NOT a new gun. That's equivalent to DYE releasing different graphic anno jobs for their DMs. Did you hear me complain about that? No you didn't. Your attempt to debate me is completely off base.
To argue my point that I have been trying to make but has been overlooked is that dye isn't releasing a new gun. They are releasing a new year of the matrix. It's still a matrix, same gun. As I had said earlier the nt was a new gun, rail new gun, slg new gun, dm4 - 13 not a new gun, just new models of the same gun, sometimes improved, sometimes not. That is the whole basis of my argument
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:02 PM #756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randomdean100

To argue my point that I have been trying to make but has been overlooked is that dye isn't releasing a new gun. They are releasing a new year of the matrix. It's still a matrix, same gun. As I had said earlier the nt was a new gun, rail new gun, slg new gun, dm4 - 13 not a new gun, just new models of the same gun, sometimes improved, sometimes not. That is the whole basis of my argument
Alright. I can roll with that.
My point is just that people are upset that they continue to do that; release a new year of the Matrix instead of actually change it up internally somehow. I can understand their point of view and agree with it to some extent. But in the end everyone's opinions on the matter will differ.
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